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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Electric Brewing > Supplying power -- 3-prong range outlet?
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:35 AM   #71
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I am standing in awe with all of the absolute bashing that I'm taking with my diagrams.

So be it. No more. You are all on your own from now on.

During the past few days I have received many PM's for custom diagrams (over 30). No more. I'm done with all of the critics and the BS.

I've invested a lot here.

Bide your time. I've no need any more to invest my money in my web site to host information for this community of severe critics. I'll be taking it all down and not contributing here any more. I'm really tired of all the BS.

Wishing you all the best as your attacks on me have been very successful.

By the way - All of you "code" rulers do not have a clue. Preach on with your pure BS.!

Do it your way now.
This is really a shame - you are a great contributor to this forum.
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Old 12-05-2012, 04:41 AM   #72
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Again, nothing personal, but NEC 250.114 (amongst others) contradicts the 3-wire approach for using "neutral" for equipment grounding in this application.

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Old 12-05-2012, 05:04 AM   #73
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One, maybe the biggest one, I think, is as jeffmeh pointed out. If you have any derived (L1-N and or L2-N) 120V loads and neutral to the main panel is lost (or degraded) you could have up to 120V on any "grounded" metal parts.
This is an excellent point and considering that we are all making up these cords and plugs ourselves, a loose neutral connection could be a possibility...

Also, if you consider the ground/neutral between the spa panel and the source carrying current, that means there is a difference in potential between points. That means that the ground at your kettle is not at the same potential as earth ground and if you get in-between, you could become the conductor. I don't have a deadly scenario for this but it's hard to argue that it's wrong.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:05 AM   #74
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Regarding code: If a dryer outlet has been and is currently being used primarily as a dryer outlet, but only later I decide to plug my homebrewed GFCI into that outlet, how does NEC code apply to me? If it does, then I think they're going too far. That's like saying plugging a lamp into an outlet is an 'installation'. I don't really buy that.

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Old 12-05-2012, 05:20 AM   #75
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The point is the dryer/range is specifically mentioned as the grandfathered item, not anything else on a similar circuit. Further, that the code in this regard was changed 16 years ago speaks to thoughts about the safety of that arrangement.

Always remember that Code is about safety not basic function of the circuit. The purpose of Code is not when everything goes perfectly, but for when things go wrong.

To keep going on, provisions of the code with respect to cord and plug connected equipment exist (previous code reference given) and does not permit neutral for equipment grounding unless specifically exempted on a connected equipment level, not based on the supply circuit. Its another false illusion perpetuated that Code stops at the receptacle.

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Old 12-05-2012, 05:28 AM   #76
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Regarding code: If a dryer outlet has been and is currently being used primarily as a dryer outlet, but only later I decide to plug my homebrewed GFCI into that outlet, how does NEC code apply to me? If it does, then I think they're going too far. That's like saying plugging a lamp into an outlet is an 'installation'. I don't really buy that.
You CAN wire your brew rig with jumper cables, old beer cans and duct tape. There will be no NEC police stopping over. The NEC is about safety. Knowingly not following it is your choice.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:31 AM   #77
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Well said. Couldn't be much more poignant than that.

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Old 12-05-2012, 05:33 AM   #78
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The point is the dryer/range is specifically mentioned as the grandfathered item, not anything else on a similar circuit. Further, that the code in this regard was changed 16 years ago speaks to thoughts about the safety of that arrangement.

Always remember that Code is about safety not basic function of the circuit. The purpose of Code is not when everything goes perfectly, but for when things go wrong.

To keep going on, provisions of the code with respect to cord and plug connected equipment exist (previous code reference given) and does not permit neutral for equipment grounding unless specifically exempted on a connected equipment level, not based on the supply circuit. Its another false illusion perpetuated that Code stops at the receptacle.
To be clear, once again, I'm not addressing safety, just code.

I don't know what you mean by 'not anything else on a similar circuit' as I was explicit by saying 'plugging something I made into my dryer outlet'. It is not an installation IMO at all, to me that is simply borrowing the outlet on occasion. I don't see how the NEC could possibly expect everyone to buy and read the NEC code book before they plug something in. It's just unrealistic and too far reaching IMO.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:35 AM   #79
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You CAN wire your brew rig with jumper cables, old beer cans and duct tape. There will be no NEC police stopping over. The NEC is about safety. Knowingly not following it is your choice.
No need to be a smart ass. I'm on board with the safety aspect, but I disagree regarding the code issue in this scenario.
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:39 AM   #80
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To be clear, once again, I'm not addressing safety, just code.

I don't know what you mean by 'not anything else on a similar circuit' as I was explicit by saying 'plugging something I made into my dryer outlet'. It is not an installation IMO at all, to me that is simply borrowing the outlet on occasion. I don't see how the NEC could possibly expect everyone to buy and read the NEC code book before they plug something in. It's just unrealistic and too far reaching IMO.
I do see your point. But, if you are "plugging in something you made", for your own sake be as safe as possible.
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