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Old 12-01-2012, 03:28 AM   #11
ryanvp123
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You guys rock, thanks so much for the help!

So what I get from all this is as long as I don't intermingle the ground/neutral myself after the proper wiring in the spa panel, I should be golden as far as that's all concerned, right? With proper grounding to the "created" ground, of course.

Also, I found some 10gauge inline fuse holders that I can pop a 30 amp fuse in to protect all my equipment, since it's all 10gauge wiring at most. Should I just put one on one of the hot legs? Or do I need one on both hot sides?

I put in a load of online orders today. Expect another build thread starting in the next couple weeks, if y'all aren't sick of them by now

Cheers!

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Old 12-01-2012, 03:30 AM   #12
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I understand but the discussion was about a 3 wire range circuit & it's ground, not a GFI protected ground. The statement was made that you can't safely use neutral and one of the hot legs of a 3 wire range circuit for 120V and this is not true.
Gotcha. Right you are. In fact, I do just that. Sorry, I just skimmed to the end of the thread.
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:31 AM   #13
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I understand but the discussion was about a 3 wire range circuit & it's ground, not a GFI protected ground. The statement was made that you can't safely use neutral and one of the hot legs of a 3 wire range circuit for 120V and this is not true.
Cheers.!!

Absolutely right on the money.

It all depends on the 'year' that the outlet wiring was installed. Dryers and ranges contain both 120V and 240V components. Therefore the power delivered is 240V and neutral.

Once past the building wiring that terminates in the outlet, what you do is not subject to the current NEC rules.

There have been many posts that I have made, and illustrated, on how to set up a proper GFCI protected plug in circuit layout using a GFCI Spa Panel. It is ALL according to code and designed to protect you.

It is ALL within code regulations and just plain common sense.

I'm done.
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:47 AM   #14
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It is ALL according to code and designed to protect you.


I'm done.
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Other than "deriving" ground from neutral in the spa panel is of no benefit to safety. Might just as well keep with a 3-wire receptacle downsteam of the spa panel and bond everything to that neutral rather than spend the money on a 4 wire and the illusion of dedicated equipment grounding.
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:48 AM   #15
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Correct, here are the rules:

Existing 3-wire wiring is legal - it conformed to code when it was installed.
3-wire ground and neutral are the same going into the spa panel.
Ground exiting the spa GFI breaker ties to all exposed metal parts, including your brew controller panel & brew pot.
Neutral exiting the spa panel along with either hot leg is used for 120V circuits.

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Old 12-01-2012, 03:51 AM   #16
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Also, I found some 10gauge inline fuse holders that I can pop a 30 amp fuse in to protect all my equipment, since it's all 10gauge wiring at most. Should I just put one on one of the hot legs? Or do I need one on both hot sides?
Cheers!
This would be for 120V stuff like your pumps? You only need to fuse the hot leg you are drawing from. But more important - don't fuse the neutral.
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:55 AM   #17
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Ground exiting the spa GFI breaker ties to all exposed metal parts, including your brew controller panel & brew pot.
Equipment ground has ZERO to do with GFI.

In fact, if you replace a non grounding two wire 120V receptacle with a GFI receptacle with grounding, you must plug the grounding prong or label the receptacle "non-grounding". Those decals and instructions are provided with GFI receptacle. Installing GFI isn't a substitute for equipment grounding but agreed it does considerably mitigate risk of electrocution.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:00 AM   #18
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Equipment ground has ZERO to do with GFI.

In fact, if you replace a non grounding two wire 120V receptacle with a GFI receptacle, you must plug grounding prong or label the receptacle "non-grounding". Those decals and instructions are provided with GFI receptacle. Installing GFI isn't a substitute for equipment grounding but agreed it does considerably mitigate risk of electrocution.
Equipment ground has everything to do with GFI. By tying your brew panel & brew pot to ground you provide a instant path to ground in the event that either of these touch live power & this will trip the GFI.

And GFI or not, you should ground any exposed metal. I don't know about you but my brew area has a lot of water standing around....
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:29 AM   #19
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This would be for 120V stuff like your pumps? You only need to fuse the hot leg you are drawing from. But more important - don't fuse the neutral.
Well, yes, I'm fusing the 120V stuff with a 7amp fuse as well, but what I'm talking about is my 240V line going into the control panel.

Since I'm coming from a 50amp Range outlet, and all my equipment & wiring is 30amp/10gauge, I'm planning to put those inline fuses in to basically downgrade my 50amp outlet to a hard max of 30 amps, since I have no 30 amp breaker (50 amp in the main panel, 50A on the spa panel). I should just have to put a 30A fuse on one leg for that purpose, yes?
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:31 AM   #20
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Equipment ground has nothing to do with the function of GFI. GFI merely measures current in vs current out. If there is a difference greater than ~6mA then GFI trips, regardless where it goes. Could be a water puddle, damp concrete, or whatever, but it's not contingent on equipment ground.

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