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Old 01-17-2014, 05:27 PM   #1
BeWilder
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Default 'Stuck' boil?

I was finally able to run a test batch through my newly built system this week and had an issue during the boil where the PID wouldn't stop firing. The boil became so violent that I finally had to move the BK to the ground because I feared it was going the collapse grill stand I was using, (there must have been a 1-2" sway back and forth).

Once I moved it to the ground I double checked the RTD connection and a few seconds later it shut off. I can't say that there was any noticeable slack in the RTD connection but that's the last think I touched before it started working again. Anyone ever have a similar issue?

The PID is a CXTG-3000 and the RTD is the Liquid Tight Weldless 2" set-up.

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Old 01-17-2014, 07:10 PM   #2
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Once you get to the boil, you should switch the PID to manual mode and dial it down. You should be able to maintain a nice rolling boil with the PID set to 75% and that reduces any risk of scorching as well.

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Old 01-17-2014, 07:15 PM   #3
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Should I switch to manual mode because a stuck boil is a known issue or is it just an overall good idea? It seems that PID has a couple million programmable options but I don't recall seeing Manual Mode as one of them...

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Old 01-17-2014, 07:22 PM   #4
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manual mode is best for maintaining a boil but that said you should have been able to get a good consistent boil plugging in a temp of 211 or 210...I,ve found that seems to work well too... for some reason my setup has sometimes overshot the set temp and I believe its because if you have it setup to kill the power to the element but the pid is still set to maintain a temp it gets confused and tries to relearn new parameters to achieve the correct temp which of course it cant do because youve killed the element power so when you turn it back on the pid is overcompensating until it relearns.
The smarter thing to do rather than move the kettle full of boiling wort with live electric going to it would have been to just kill the element power with your safety switch...

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Old 01-17-2014, 07:36 PM   #5
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Based on my current calibration I'm hitting a strong boil around 206 and the highest I've seen it go is 207.8. Once I noticed it wasn't shutting off I lowered the SV down by 100 just to eliminate any chance of a lag.

I know I could have killed the power, (that's why I have the switch), but my timer has no memory function and I didn't want to loose the programming that was already in place, (silly justification, but that was my logic). Since I still had another 45 min of the boil to go I didn't see any harm in further analyzing the situation and letting it boil on the ground.

The problem is that I don't know what I did to correct the issue...

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Old 01-17-2014, 07:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeWilder View Post
Based on my current calibration I'm hitting a strong boil around 206 and the highest I've seen it go is 207.8. Once I noticed it wasn't shutting off I lowered the SV down by 100 just to eliminate any chance of a lag.

I know I could have killed the power, (that's why I have the switch), but my timer has no memory function and I didn't want to loose the programming that was already in place, (silly justification, but that was my logic). Since I still had another 45 min of the boil to go I didn't see any harm in further analyzing the situation and letting it boil on the ground.

The problem is that I don't know what I did to correct the issue...
boiling point is supposed to be 212 degrees right? I wonder if your temp probe is off? I also noticed mine starts boiling around 209 but at 212 its a steady strong rolling boil. but I dont get sloshing of the wort or anything violent.

I just meant it wasnt too safe to be moving it the way you did vs killing it first...
No memory? really? my cheapy mypin pids do have a memory as well as manual mode.... for $26 shipped you may want to upgrade to a mypin TD4.
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:49 PM   #7
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Vigorous boil and slight rolling boil happen at the same temp (212 deg F at sea level).
Use manual mode to control power to the element to maintain the boil.

Seriously consider upgrading or reinforcing your brew stand. You don't want to spill 10 gal of boiling water on yourself or someone else.

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Old 01-17-2014, 07:55 PM   #8
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Vigorous boil and slight rolling boil happen at the same temp (212 deg F at sea level).
Use manual mode to control power to the element to maintain the boil.

Seriously consider upgrading or reinforcing your brew stand. You don't want to spill 10 gal of boiling water on yourself or someone else.
well I am above sea level...not much but enough to where it effects the safe compression ratio for 91 octane on the engine I built for my vette... and I'm in between niagara falls and buffalo NY not exactly the rock mountains...
still I wonder does that raise or lower my boiling point...hmm something for me to Google..
all three of my thermometers coincided with my temp probe and pids reading within a degree. except one that read a degree higher or lower if I remember right.
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Old 01-17-2014, 07:55 PM   #9
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trying to use closed-loop control during a boil isn't a great idea. Figure out how to use your PID in manual mode, I'm sure it has one on there. This open-loop mode just fires your element off at some regular duty cycle, regardless of temperature readings.

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Old 01-17-2014, 07:56 PM   #10
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+1 on the reinforced brew stand. Even with the grill not rocking from the boil, it doesn't look as sturdy as it should be.

If you're looking for a simple and sturdy wooden brew stand, here is a pic of the one I built. I can upload the ACAD drawing that breaks it all down. With all the lumber it was $50 and took about an hour and a half to build.

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