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Old 06-28-2012, 06:41 AM   #31
Thefirebuilds
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Originally Posted by cockybitz View Post
The heat that you feel around your pot when using a gas burner means lost efficiency, whereas electric does not have as much heat lost (higher efficiency). The immersed element in the pot provides 100% efficiency. Now gas may be cheaper (despite a lower efficiency) , but more efficient it is not.
lolwut.

"electricity" doesn't just happen.

It comes from here, for most of us:


Electric is only more _convenient_ - it is rarely more efficient. Certainly not as a heat source.

And of course, _nothing_ is 100% efficient, nor can it be.
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:11 AM   #32
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Wow, didn't realize how far back we were going in the derivation of a certain type of energy. I suppose you should also consider the hydrocracking and energy needs to run an oil rig to obtain and process petroleum before it gets to one's stove. Perhaps we should even consider the loss of energy in the fossilization of the fuels of which petroleum may become after billions of years.

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Old 06-29-2012, 09:18 AM   #33
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Beer.

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10 gallon electric system
Stovetop 110v single vessel 5 gallon system

Primary: saison
Secondary: nada
Conditioning: macaroon stout
Drinking: store bought
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:53 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Thefirebuilds View Post
lolwut.

"electricity" doesn't just happen.
It comes from here, for most of us:

Electric is only more _convenient_ - it is rarely more efficient. Certainly not as a heat source.

And of course, _nothing_ is 100% efficient, nor can it be.
For our means "efficiency" is in regards to brewing beer/saving money not saving the world's eco-system. I'm sure that's what he was meaning.

In the end it's all a matter of scale, or "economy of scale". Our NG/propane buying is on the higher end because we buy it from the resellers. We can't wholesale coal/propane/NG because we don't buy in large scale. So electricity from an electric company, in the end, is actually more efficient.

Much more "energy" is captured from electrical plants using NG/etc than from our burning propane/NG to boil water.

The only thing I think could top that is making your own electricity or methane.
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Old 07-15-2012, 03:39 PM   #35
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Thanks for posting your setup. Have you had any problems with the pvc cap on the backside of your element getting hot? How did you connect your ground wire?

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Old 07-15-2012, 05:01 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thefirebuilds View Post
lolwut.

"electricity" doesn't just happen.

Electric is only more _convenient_ - it is rarely more efficient. Certainly not as a heat source.

And of course, _nothing_ is 100% efficient, nor can it be.
I'd argue that a totally immersed electric heating element is more efficient than propane gas. With a immersed electric heating element like a water heater element, 100% of the applied energy transfers to your wurt. With a propane rig a lot of heat, I bet up to 40%, flows around your pot and is radiated off the bottom.

Sure, there are losses in production and delivery but this is true for everything. If you must chase energy back to its sources you need to consider the steps your propane must go through and their losses:

Processed from pertolium & liquified = efficiency loss (the energy cost of running the process)

Transported by truck to a large fill station = efficiency loss (last I checked trucks don't run on free energy)

Transfer losses from truck to fill station tank = efficiency loss (energy to pump propane into tank + gas blow-off losses from the tank & lines)

Transfer losses from the fill station tank to 30# tanks = efficiency loss (energy to run fill station + gas blow-off losses from tank to tank transfer)

Delivered to your local retail outlet by truck = efficiency loss (last I checked trucks don't run on free energy)

Bought and transferred by you to your house = efficiency loss (your car doesn't run for free either)

Compare electricity to natural gas and I agree with you 100%, but very few of us brew with natual gas.
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:54 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by kc_blueandwhite View Post
Thanks for posting your setup. Have you had any problems with the pvc cap on the backside of your element getting hot? How did you connect your ground wire?
Thanks for staying on topic

I keep the cap as far from the element as possible and have not had problems yet. It's not the optimal arrangement for sure.
The ground wire is soldered to the metal hex flange on the element itself.
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Stovetop 110v single vessel 5 gallon system

Primary: saison
Secondary: nada
Conditioning: macaroon stout
Drinking: store bought
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Old 07-16-2012, 04:35 PM   #38
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Thanks for staying on topic
Ha, no problem, this thread certainly veered off into left field.

What element are you using in your pot? Any problems with it?
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Old 10-05-2012, 01:19 PM   #39
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OK so SEVERE NOOB... Reading all I can, about all I can on this forum. Wish I had found and read this site before I started making anything, as I have an apple cider and an apple/pear/ little bit of orange wine preparing to get bottled in my guest bathroom, that may or may not be very good in a while. Thanks to this I am Waiting NLT 6 months on the wine. SWMBO is even liking my new hobby. So thank you for all the info I have already received, from all the great people that post new info for people just getting into this .



I planned on doing BIAB and going for about a 15 gallon keggle set up so that I am not spending more money later when I want to have larger capabilities. Will this set up, scale up to a keggle? I am thinking either use two internal heating elements at different levels(depths) so i could turn one off if I am doing small batches or use a cannibalized external element in addition to them. I also feel like I may use the top that I cut off of my keg as a false bottom instead of building the manifold like in this system.

Now the question....

What do you think of my plan? I welcome any shoot downs.Or better ideas. They will only make me a better brewer and hopefully save me some growing pains. Again thank you to all the people that make this forum the great resource that it is.

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Old 10-05-2012, 01:43 PM   #40
thargrav
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Two 1650 watt or 2000 watt elements plus your stove top should heat 15 - 18 gallons but your stove top plus one element won't. One element plus your stove top might heat 10 gallons depending on your stove.

I suggest mounting both elements as close to the bottom as you can.

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