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Old 01-11-2012, 05:51 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Capn_James View Post

To help another dummy…

Regarding the yellow N coming out of the breaker and going to the receptacle: Is this only used for a N return in 110v devices?

It looks like your receptacle (kettle) is grounding at the G bus (upper right). And the G bus is wired directly to the N bus, making both buses up-stream from the GFCI, correct?

Within this panel, how are the G bus and N bus functionally different? Since they’re both up stream from the breaker, and since they’re wired together directly, and since they’re both connected to the three wire supply’s ground, what are their separate functions?

If that’s remotely accurate, why not just send your receptacle/kettle ground to the N bus, directly next to where your dryer chord’s ground connects?

And… within this panel, is the G bus solely intended to ground the spa panel chassis?

Finally, what is the round-and-flat aluminum piece that’s screwed to the back of some of the panels I’ve seen?

I’m sure your box is correct, and big thanks to all you guys, and a sincere apology if this has been discussed ad nauseum. I just want to understand it with perfect clarity before I wire mine up.

Cheers
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Old 02-28-2012, 03:46 PM   #22
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The spa panel discussed in this thread is described twice as being 240 watts on the home depot website, the first one I though was a typo, but am I missing something?

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100686230/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=UG412RMW250P&storeId=10051

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Old 02-28-2012, 05:56 PM   #23
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Default Watts = Volts * Amps

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Originally Posted by NoCornOrRice View Post
The spa panel discussed in this thread is described twice as being 240 watts on the home depot website, the first one I though was a typo, but am I missing something?

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100686230/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=UG412RMW250P&storeId=10051
TYPO!!! A basic example: 240V * 50 Amps = 12,000 Watts. By the way that's a lot!! Still a good deal for GFCI protection. You can still get the GFCI protection you need, even if you hook it up to a breaker in your main/house breaker box that is smaller amperage. My $0.02
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Old 03-10-2012, 12:44 PM   #24
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Got a question: I have a 3 wire 20 amp 220 V outlet in the garage that I want to hook this SPA Panel and ultimately an Auber PID to. The only issue is that the outlet is two hots and a ground, not two hots and neutral. Can I wire it up the same as shown in the pictures?

Or am I unable to get 110 to the control panel, and will be forced to run a new 4 wire 50A line to the garage, thereby being able to run two 4500 watt elements instead of the one 3500 watter I am planning now? Please understand that your summarized responses will be presented to the accounting department for final decision.

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Old 03-10-2012, 10:42 PM   #25
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Just found a deal 6/4 aluminum wiring on clearance at HD 53 cents a foot. Guess that makes my decision easier.

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Old 03-10-2012, 11:25 PM   #26
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And by the way for anyone reading about my option with two hots and one ground, that's not a good (or safe) idea. Your receptacle needs to be two hots and a neutral for you to split it in the spa panel if you plan on getting 110 into your control panel. Even then its not up to NEC code, but that's besides the point.

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Old 04-02-2012, 06:35 PM   #27
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Default Older 3-prong dryer outlet ---> spa panel --->

I have everything wired up to this point (I haven't finished my control panel yet) and now I think I may be misinterpreting some things. My control panel for now would be a simple one element/one pump like Johnodon's.

Background:
House built in 1954. 30 amp 240 circuit breaker in the main panel. There is a dryer outlet I was going to use for brewing. Using a meter, I measured 240v across the hots, 120v across either hot and ground/neutral. Since I have a gas dryer (and to use the outlet in its current location I would have had to drape the CP power cord across a sink and washer) I moved the outlet and reconnected it. When I took the outlet apart I found 8(10?)/2 SE aluminum cable with an uninsulated ground/neutral wrapped around the two insulated hots (black/red).

So. My plan was to split the ground/neutral in Spa panel and then run a 10/3 wire out of the spa panel and terminate that to a 4-prong connector, which I would then connect to the power cable from the control panel. I still wired everything up and connected the spa panel to the 3-prong outlet. On the 4-prong connector (NEMA L14-30) from the spa panel, I tested 240v across the two hots and 120v across either hot and neutral and 120v across either hot to ground. I pushed the GFCI test button on the spa panel and the breaker tripped.

I've read that the aluminum SE cable was grandfathered in and included ground/neutral. Eventually (within two years), I plan on having the service panel upgraded to 200 amps (with a new run to the brewery), but for the interim I was hoping to get by with this set-up until then. Is this still a practical* solution or am I misinterpreting this method of splitting ground/neutral at the spa panel?



*I understand that the proper response is to just run new 10/3. But I'm more interested in whether spa panel will work or not.

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Old 04-02-2012, 07:28 PM   #28
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EDIT: Not sure I trust my electricity knowledge enough to leave my opinion on this thread. Opinion omitted.

Listen to P-J. Or better yet call an electrician to come look at your setup.

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Old 04-02-2012, 07:39 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kpr121 View Post
Someone with more expertise can chime in on me here, but I think that if your existing plug/wiring is two hots and a ground, you do not want to split that ground into ground/neutral within the spa panel. Especially since the existing ground wire is uninsulated, you could be electrifying that wire (and anything else metal that happens to be touching it). Which means that if all your wiring in the house is ran that way, every single ground cord could be carrying current to everything that it is touching.

In simple terms, inside the spa panel you can split a neutral into ground/neutral, but you can’t split a ground into a ground/neutral.

Please someone check me and if I am found to be wrong I will edit this post to avoid further confusion.
How do you test the third wire to see if it is a neutral or ground? Dang, I thought I just about had this all understood and what I needed to do.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:52 PM   #30
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Check continuity with a known 110V neutral and/or ground? Or you could look in the breaker box and see where the wire is hooked up.

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