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Old 02-27-2013, 06:12 PM   #1
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Default Spa Panel hookup

So i am going to pull the trigger and start getting my EBIAB setup going. Just to make sure my thinking is correct I plan to use my 240/30a Dryer outlet I am using this http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1...1#.US5MJfIiW20 spa panel. From reading if i wire a dryer plug to it and plug it in I should be good to go. Using this post as reference.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/spa...ummies-266751/

Also would this cord work http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=202647860&storeId=10051&l angId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=202647860&ci_kw={keyword} &kwd={keyword}&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googleads-_-pla-_-202647860&ci_gpa=pla#.US5YQ_IiW20

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Old 02-27-2013, 07:18 PM   #2
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What do you need the Disconnect for? That type of GFCI is not designed for personal protection but to protect equipment and will not protect from electric shock. Only 120 volt GFCIs provide personal protection and they even make 120 volt GFCI breakers that are designed to only protect equipment.

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Old 02-27-2013, 07:43 PM   #3
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I was going off of the Diagram and links that was in the diagram. As for why it is 3 prong dryer outlets do not have a true ground which under my understanding is why I am using the spa panel.

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Old 02-27-2013, 07:55 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by RayHomeBrewer View Post
What do you need the Disconnect for? That type of GFCI is not designed for personal protection but to protect equipment and will not protect from electric shock. Only 120 volt GFCIs provide personal protection and they even make 120 volt GFCI breakers that are designed to only protect equipment.
So you are suggesting that a GFCI intended to be used in an application where people are sitting in a hot tub is not designed to trip fast enough to protect said people? Or that an application where a 240v element is immersed in liquid should go without a GFCI?

As far as I know, this a suitable GFCI for the application. I would suggest to the OP that if you are planning to use the 3 wires in / 4 wires out configuration that you read this thread also.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/3-w...-again-372667/
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:04 PM   #5
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So you are suggesting that a GFCI intended to be used in an application where people are sitting in a hot tub is not designed to trip fast enough to protect said people? Or that an application where a 240v element is immersed in liquid should go without a GFCI?

As far as I know, this a suitable GFCI for the application. I would suggest to the OP that if you are planning to use the 3 wires in / 4 wires out configuration that you read this thread also.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/3-w...-again-372667/
Yes, hot tubs have internal GFCI protection for personal protection.

You said "240v element is immersed in liquid should go without a GFCI?"

If you have a hot water tank and copper pipes you bath in water that is in contact with a 240v element is immersed in liquid every time you take a bath.

A 240 volt GFCI will not protect you from electric shock.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:11 PM   #6
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I was going off of the Diagram and links that was in the diagram. As for why it is 3 prong dryer outlets do not have a true ground which under my understanding is why I am using the spa panel.
Depends if the dryer wiring was done before of after the 1996 National Electrical code. Before 1996 the ground and neutral wire were combined into one conductor. The 3rd wire being classified as a "current carrying conductor" had to be insulated. This is why you do not see the three wire dryers wired with 10-2 Romex as it has a bare ground wire. Many times when you open up an old 3 wire dryer outlet you find the ground wire was just tucked away or cut off and you can replace the 3 wire plug with a 4 wire one with the existing 10-3 Romex. I would caution to make sure the ground wife is full size as in the 50s and 60s they used a much lower gauge ground wire, and to be sure it was connected in the panel.
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Old 02-27-2013, 08:49 PM   #7
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Yes, hot tubs have internal GFCI protection for personal protection.

You said "240v element is immersed in liquid should go without a GFCI?"

If you have a hot water tank and copper pipes you bath in water that is in contact with a 240v element is immersed in liquid every time you take a bath.

A 240 volt GFCI will not protect you from electric shock.
If you are correct, then there are many e-brewers who are under the mistaken impression that their 240v GFCIs are affording them some protection.

So if I have a 240v GFCI with 5 milliamps sensitivity, why will it not protect me from electric shock?
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:00 PM   #8
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I did not mean to start anything on here, I was just looking for a feasible way to power a 1 kettle ebiab setup and from what I have read anytime I have an electrician come in to do the outlet they are required to rewire and if it comes down to it then fine. I just figured there were alot of people brewing using a spa panel so I figured it was not to horrible an idea.

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Old 02-27-2013, 09:17 PM   #9
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If you are correct, then there are many e-brewers who are under the mistaken impression that their 240v GFCIs are affording them some protection.

So if I have a 240v GFCI with 5 milliamps sensitivity, why will it not protect me from electric shock?

There is a lot of misunderstanding about GFCIs among electricians too I guess is my best answer. I did a 2000 amp service and the NEC says I have to use a GFCI main to protect the service. That does not mean I don't need to GFCI protect outlets in bathrooms etc.

I hear people talk about short circuiting a 120 volt circuit when that is impossible as the only way to short circuit something is line line to line. If you go from line to ground that is a fault not a short circuit.
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Old 02-27-2013, 09:30 PM   #10
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There is a lot of misunderstanding about GFCIs among electricians too I guess is my best answer. I did a 2000 amp service and the NEC says I have to use a GFCI main to protect the service. That does not mean I don't need to GFCI protect outlets in bathrooms etc.

I hear people talk about short circuiting a 120 volt circuit when that is impossible as the only way to short circuit something is line line to line. If you go from line to ground that is a fault not a short circuit.
With all due respect, you did not answer my question. You maintained that a 240v GFCI will not protect person, but only protect equipment. That contradicts the collective wisdom of this board. I know that there are some 240v GFCIs that will not trip fast enough to necessarily save one's life, but that does not mean it is so for every 240v GFCI. I am open to the possibility that you are correct, but you need to explain the logic behind your statement. So again, why would a 240v GFCI with 5 milliamp sensitivity not protect one from electric shock?
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