The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Electric Brewing > Power/E-stop Wiring for 2 inputs (120V & 220V)

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 02-01-2011, 02:00 PM   #1
thelorax121
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Athens GA
Posts: 419
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default Power/E-stop Wiring for 2 inputs (120V & 220V)

Since my only 220V access is a 3-pole outlet, I have to run one 120V line in as well as a 220V line for my 5500W heatstick element. However, I am having some trouble figuring out how to wire both of these into my control box in a logical, cohesive manner, and was hoping some some of the enlightened amongst us could give me a helping hand. Here is the VERY crude diagram I have so far:



So my first few questions are:

1. Is the neutral leg run into the box and the power in contactor correctly?
2. Where would I wire the load line from the 120V? I want to run it through a second NC contact on the E-stop, but then where, an additional bus bar? Since I already have the two lines from the 240V, I don't know where a third would safely reside

I am sure that more questions will crop up as I go, but we'll start here for now. Thanks for the help, and sorry for the crude nature of my diagram!

__________________
thelorax121 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-01-2011, 02:35 PM   #2
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,235
Liked 72 Times on 64 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

i can't see the picture.

__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-01-2011, 02:36 PM   #3
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,235
Liked 72 Times on 64 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

nevermind. I know why I can't see it. It's on a file sharing site and my laptop (which belongs to my employer) has the firewall set up so that I cannot go to file sharing sites.

__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-01-2011, 02:40 PM   #4
thelorax121
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Athens GA
Posts: 419
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Hm, I would love your input, is there a better way to post the picture so that it is accessible?

__________________
thelorax121 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-01-2011, 02:45 PM   #5
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,235
Liked 72 Times on 64 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

I managed to get the picture via my blackberry (not controlled by my employer's IT department).

What you have isn't going to work. You cannot use the neutral from the 120V input and one of the hots from the 240V input to activate the coil on your contactor. That will cause the GFI circuitry (which you ARE using, correct?) to trip on both the 240V and 120V sources. The whole system would shut down as soon as you tried to turn it on.

If you have things that need to be controlled by 120V they are going to have to be drawing completely from the 120V feed. Your 240V will simply pass through the contactor and to your heater element and will not connect to anything else.

What is the "shunt"?

__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-01-2011, 03:40 PM   #6
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,235
Liked 72 Times on 64 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

I can draw this up, but I need to know how your key start and e-stop buttons work.

Are they "momentary" switches?

__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-01-2011, 04:00 PM   #7
thelorax121
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Athens GA
Posts: 419
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walker View Post
I managed to get the picture via my blackberry (not controlled by my employer's IT department).

What you have isn't going to work. You cannot use the neutral from the 120V input and one of the hots from the 240V input to activate the coil on your contactor. That will cause the GFI circuitry (which you ARE using, correct?) to trip on both the 240V and 120V sources. The whole system would shut down as soon as you tried to turn it on.

If you have things that need to be controlled by 120V they are going to have to be drawing completely from the 120V feed. Your 240V will simply pass through the contactor and to your heater element and will not connect to anything else.

What is the "shunt"?
First, yes I will be using GFCI, I have two inline cords, one for 120v 20A, and another for 240V 30A. The shunt is for the AMP meters, similar to the ones that KAL used on his build. I am posting a pic of my latest diagram (and a link to the google doc if that is easier to see), the 240VC will be run through the contactor and SSR and the 120V devices (not shown) will be fed from the power distribution block. The wiring of the SSRs and Contactors still has me a bit confused, so any and all help is appreciated!



https://docs.google.com/document/d/1oyfJ4hmn0FBKoxhYkJJ3wqi_JoKm9vA9xEaBCCLjzyA/edit?hl=en#
__________________
thelorax121 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-01-2011, 04:10 PM   #8
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,235
Liked 72 Times on 64 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Yeah, I can see stuff on google docs just fine.

This is looking better, except that your shunt needs to go on one of the the 240V lines if you are in fact interested in monitoring the current to your heater element.

Also, it's not necessary to pass the 120V neutral through the contactor, but you can if you want to.

The specifics of how your e-stop button and key switch are still not known to me, so I can't comment on whether that portion of the circuitry is or is not correct.

__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-01-2011, 04:12 PM   #9
Walker
I use secondaries. :p
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Walker's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cary, NC
Posts: 11,235
Liked 72 Times on 64 Posts
Likes Given: 11

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Walker View Post
Also, it's not necessary to pass the 120V neutral through the contactor, but you can if you want to.
Actually.... the neutral connected to the 120V source's contactor coil must come directly from the 120V feed and not from the "post contactor" side. You wouldn't be able to start this thing up with it wired like you currently have it wired.
__________________
Ground Fault Brewing Co.
Walker is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 02-01-2011, 04:43 PM   #10
thelorax121
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Athens GA
Posts: 419
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

I figured that was the case with the neutral running through the contactor, but I was not sure if both poles HAD to have a line running through them. In this version, I ran the neutral line directly to the power block, then ran a line from that to the contactor, is that correct?

The key switch has a NO contact that the line will run through, which when engaged will allow it to flow through the e-stop contact (NC) and then to the contactor coil, providing power to the panel. I was also planning on running the 120V line from the power block for the 240V contactor through a second NC block on the E-stop switch before it goes downstream to the on/off switch and the contactor, that way the E-stop will kill both the 120V and 240V power. Does this sound accurate?

As for the shunt, totally mussed that up, here is current rendition with it wired into one of the 240V legs. Thanks so much for your help here man, you're a lifesaver!

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...dTo/edit?hl=en

__________________
thelorax121 is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Would this work for a 20A/120V power cable? thelorax121 Electric Brewing 3 01-12-2011 04:06 AM
120v Control Panel + 220v quick add on = Ultimate mobility? wh4tig0t Electric Brewing 2 01-11-2011 05:33 AM
120v Switches CoalCracker Electric Brewing 7 10-15-2010 08:53 PM
How Many Temp Inputs EHERMS Brewers? EuBrew Electric Brewing 10 10-13-2010 10:29 PM
One 220v or two 110v? goybar Electric Brewing 5 10-12-2010 06:30 PM