New Giveaway - Wort Monster Conical Fermenter!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Electric Brewing > PID with two heating elements and how to wire it?




Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-18-2011, 08:47 AM   #1
diS
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
diS's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Croatia
Posts: 1,018
Liked 44 Times on 42 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default PID with two heating elements and how to wire it?

Hello to all of you!

I have dilemma on how to connect and wire two heating elements and one PID, I hope someone will help me out with this.

This is my setup:
Auberins SYL-2352
2 SSRs 25A
2 Heat sinks
2 2000w 220V heating elements (both in HLT)

I will use two heating elements (2 x 2000w) in my HLT, and I would like to be able to turn on both of them or only one to heat and maintain water temperature.

They will both work at the start, when water temperature is reached PID will turn off both of them and I will turn off one of them (with switch) and let the other one to maintain temperature.

I searched through forum and I found that they have to be wired in parallel, can I use one of these wiring diagrams (and which one) to wire it:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/electric-brewing-question-167052/#post1931368

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/my-two-5500-watt-element-1-pid-ssr-build-281085/#post3485613

What dou you think about this idea, can it be done or maybe it is wiser to connect both heating elements so they run as single one (if I run them as single one do I need two SSRs)?



__________________
diS is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-18-2011, 01:04 PM   #2
Lucky_Chicken
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Bloomfield, IA
Posts: 793
Liked 31 Times on 23 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

doing what you are looking for is very doable! You will need a contractor for each element then you can switch one or both elements off. You would want to auto tune your PID to the single element so it functions correctly when up to temp.

The the diagrams you show will power one or the other not both. you would need something that has at least one ssr fired off the pid and two contractors (or strong enough switches) on switches, one of the elements can just be wired up with the contractor so when the switch is on its on the other one gets fired per the pid



Lucky_Chicken is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-18-2011, 01:23 PM   #3
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Piscataway, NJ
Posts: 21,733
Liked 853 Times on 572 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

I'm curious why you feel having one turn off completely is of any advantage? Is it so that you have some capacity to run the boil kettle?

__________________
BrewHardware.com
Sightglass, Refractometer, Ball Valve, Weldless bulkhead, Thermometer, Decals, Stainless Steel Fittings, Compression Fittings, Camlock Quick Disconnects, Scale, RIMS tube, Plate Chiller, Chugger Pump, Super Clear Silicone Tubing, and more!
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-18-2011, 01:44 PM   #4
onthekeg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,778
Liked 73 Times on 58 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default

OP, I would think you could just run the SSR's with a jumper line between the two + posts from the PID, and put a toggle switch between the two SSR's so the other one is "dead" to the PID.
PID + to SSR 1, Jumper to toggle switch, toggle switch to SSR 2 +.

__________________
onthekeg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-18-2011, 03:11 PM   #5
JRems
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Mahopac, NY
Posts: 2,228
Liked 57 Times on 49 Posts
Likes Given: 9

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
I'm curious why you feel having one turn off completely is of any advantage? Is it so that you have some capacity to run the boil kettle?
I'm wondering the same as well. Won't the pid take care of everything? Why not just run one 4000w element and use the pid to scale back the temp, I don't see the advantage to having 2 heating elements.
__________________
JRems is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-18-2011, 03:54 PM   #6
diS
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
diS's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Croatia
Posts: 1,018
Liked 44 Times on 42 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default

I already have 2000kw elements from previous setup, so I would like to employ these two.

@jtsims21I & onthekeg

I am trying to figure what you said (and have hard time with it since my electrician knowledge is for shame..).
Is this jumper:
Western Electric Wax wires Bi-Wire Speaker Jumper Cable | eBay
toggle switch:
3-Pin SPDT ON-OFF-ON Toggle Switch 6A 125VAC | eBay
and contractor:
LC1-0910 M7 Safety Electric Circuit AC Contactor Switch 25A | eBay??

@Bobby_M
Main reason is associate with AC power available to my whole house which is 4.4kw on each of 3 phases (13.2kw overall), so when PID runs 2 heaters there is reduced power on 2 phases which can cause in break on that phase (if someone else in house load that phase), not big deal but pretty PITA..

Another purpose is to disable frequently firing SSRs which should decrease heating of them.
It is not big deal if I have to run both heaters at the time, but it would be nice to prevent phase break and SSRs overheat.

__________________
diS is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-18-2011, 04:03 PM   #7
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Piscataway, NJ
Posts: 21,733
Liked 853 Times on 572 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

That makes sense now.

__________________
BrewHardware.com
Sightglass, Refractometer, Ball Valve, Weldless bulkhead, Thermometer, Decals, Stainless Steel Fittings, Compression Fittings, Camlock Quick Disconnects, Scale, RIMS tube, Plate Chiller, Chugger Pump, Super Clear Silicone Tubing, and more!
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-18-2011, 04:57 PM   #8
onthekeg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,778
Liked 73 Times on 58 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default

Any wire of the proper gauge can be a jumper wire. Essentially you have a + wire from your PID to SSR 1, and a wire from this post to the same post on SSR 2. Cut the wire in the middle and run it to your toggle switch. Its low voltage, so pretty much any light wire you have will work.

You will only need a OFF ON toggle switch for this. When its off, only one element fires, when its on, both will fire.

__________________
onthekeg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-18-2011, 06:28 PM   #9
diS
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
diS's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Croatia
Posts: 1,018
Liked 44 Times on 42 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default

Thanks!
So you are saying to put toggle switch between +wire on SSRs input from PID.
Would this diagram work (made by P-J on other thread), I"ll be using two pumps also:


or remove upper switches and put jumper w/switch:

__________________
diS is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 12-19-2011, 12:25 PM   #10
onthekeg
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,778
Liked 73 Times on 58 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default

I would do it like the bottom picture. You can use a cheaper switch, but its up to you.



__________________
onthekeg is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need advise on heating elements BamaRooster Electric Brewing 4 11-04-2011 03:34 PM
looking for clarification on heating elements for RIMS kegtoe Electric Brewing 8 10-24-2011 04:45 PM
Holes for heating elements? lonepalm Electric Brewing 5 07-31-2011 09:22 PM
Question on heating elements ddknight Electric Brewing 0 07-06-2011 04:09 AM
Those using JB Weld to mount heating elements . . . Squeeky Electric Brewing 8 02-12-2011 10:08 PM