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Old 03-27-2012, 02:00 AM   #1
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Default No pump wiring schematic electric build help

I was wondering if someone could offer me some advice/help. I brew with the standard two kegs and a cooler system on a three tier setup. I have just recently outfitted my HLT and BK with 5500 elements. My original plan was to connect the HLT element to a timer and when I wake up my water is at temp ready for the mash (I have a few kids and I typically brew early mornings). When I’m done sparging and ready to boil, unplug the HLT element and plug the BK element to boil. I think I may encounter some problems namely the boil may be way too hard and the dough in/sparge temp may be off if I’m late to tending it, negating any time saving benefits.

The more I’m looking at brewing with electric the more overwhelming this seems. I really just want something fairly simple that turns the HLT and BK on/off to moderate a specific temp. I’ve searched quite a bit and have found several posts that have been very helpful, however many of the control panel builds and schematics have pumps somewhere in the system. I have no pumps and don’t foresee that I will. I would ideally like to purchase only one PID and temperature probe for use with the HLT and then use the selector switch to engage the BK heating element and then dial down the element when boil is achieved. Based on my severely limited knowledge these are some of the major items I need:

One Pid
One Temperature probe for the HLT
An SSR
Heatsink
A 3 selector switch (to switch between elements)
Water proof project box
Emergency stop button
240v timer

I also need big help with wiring schematics---what gets wired where…
Right now I have 50 amp Spa box waiting in the garage.

My knowledge and vocabulary in regards to electrics is limited so forgive me before hand if I misspeak. I don’t plan on building this over night as I have a lot to learn.

Thanks for any help!

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Old 03-27-2012, 11:19 PM   #2
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One factor you're going to have to address (if you want accuracy) is distributing your heat evenly. A pump is often used to circulate the water and allow an accurate temperature reading (therefore correct usage of your PID). Some have used a stir motor above, and stainless propeller. Without a solution like those, there is no way for the PID to get an accurate temperature reading.

Sounds like a great plan though, can help out with wiring once you nail down your components. It should become much more evident to you at that point as well. Just make sure you understand what each component does.

Determine if you will need/want dc voltage for your switches or other components, and what kind of relays you will use to provide switchable power to the elements.

Back to your original idea, you could power your PID through the timer, and set it to come on a couple hours before you wake up and brew, so you have your water perfectly at temp.

Good luck with the planning, let us know how we can help

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Old 03-28-2012, 02:19 AM   #3
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I’m ok with stirring the hlt every now and then to get a slightly more accurate reading; if I’m off a couple of degrees going into the mash tun I can compensate for it. The overall emphasis of my brewery right now is making it quick and easy. I’ll produce better, more consistent beers the more I brew. I hoping to shorten an hour off my brew day by having the water prepped to strike temp. when I wake or get home from work.

Here’s what I’m thinking so far (this is based on another site and here):

PID temperature controller SYL-2352, $44.50:
Weldless RTD temperature probe PT100-L50M14, $33.95:
Panel mount connector for RTD sensor RTDCON, $3.75:
40 amp SSR with heatsink, ~$12:
Panel mount fuse holder, ~$3
2-space Eaton load center #BR24L70SGP, $12.47 (for control panel)
30-amp 2-pole flush-mount outlet #621336, $5.29:
Emergency Stop (E-Stop) Switch, 22mm Model: SW6 $6.99:
3 Position 2NO Maintained Select Selector Switch $3.50
30-amp 4-wire flush mount outlet #918137, $7.49
Still looking for a timer…

If a toggle switch is easier than 3 position selector switch I would much rather go that route.

Thanks again.

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Old 03-28-2012, 02:47 AM   #4
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I'm interested in your build plan. I need a little time to think this through.

Just so I understand:

3 tier system.
No pump.
HLT and BOIL kettle are Sanke kegs.
MASH tun is an insulated cooler.
Single PID system.

Is that right?
What is your power feed? What power outlet are you going to use? 240V 30A or 240V 50A? Three or four prong outlet?

I am positive that it can be done. I just need to understand your mission and available power a little more.

P-J

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Old 03-28-2012, 12:27 PM   #5
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Wow! Thanks!

And you are correct:
3 tier system.
No pump.
HLT and BOIL kettle are Sanke kegs.
MASH tun is an insulated cooler.
Single PID system (I believe I can dial in the hlt heat and control the strength of the bk through just one).

I have a 240v 50 amp spa panel supplying the power and will be switching the spa panel to a 4 wire setup (I'm pretty sure I need to)
-I already have 3 prong plugs on my element power cords- not sure if this makes a difference.

Thanks again!

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Old 03-28-2012, 12:56 PM   #6
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What is your power feed?
I konw that you will be using the spa panel. What is the feed to it? 30A or 50A? Then is that a 3 wire or 4 wire feed?

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Old 03-28-2012, 12:57 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPB View Post
Wow! Thanks!

And you are correct:
3 tier system.
No pump.
HLT and BOIL kettle are Sanke kegs.
MASH tun is an insulated cooler.
Single PID system (I believe I can dial in the hlt heat and control the strength of the bk through just one).

I have a 240v 50 amp spa panel supplying the power and will be switching the spa panel to a 4 wire setup (I'm pretty sure I need to)
-I already have 3 prong plugs on my element power cords- not sure if this makes a difference.

Thanks again!
Where are you connecting that SPA panel to? Do you have a feed ran from a main breaker or subpanel? Is it a 50 amp breaker? 6 AWG copper wiring? Or is it going to be connected to an existing dryer outlet? It is very common for most dryer outlets to be 30 amps.

The breaker in you box will determine what type of power you can run (and also what size wiring you will need). Many people (myself included) only have a 30 or 40 amp breaker that feeds the SPA panel, basically the SPA panel is only there for GFCI.
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Old 03-28-2012, 03:29 PM   #8
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I have a 3 wire (6AWG) 60 amp subpanel power feed into 50 amp spa panel.

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Old 03-28-2012, 04:05 PM   #9
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Found this in regards to a timer...a pricey one at that.
Sylvania SA315 Zip-Set Industrial Timer Weatherproof DPST 240v

Was hoping to find a plug in style, although I'm uncertain if they even make them.

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Old 03-28-2012, 04:09 PM   #10
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or this one more likely GE 40 Amp Heavy-Duty Metal Box Timer

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