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Old 11-28-2012, 03:14 PM   #21
ajdelange
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FWIW here is how I would do alarms. I don't like the idea of being able to turn them off with a toggle/rotary switch as if you forget to turn them back on they are not there next time an alarm condition exists. I'm not telling anyone that they need to do it this way or that they should do it this way. Just throwing out another idea for perspective.

In the circuit below K1 is any NO contact that closes when an alarm condition is detected. It could be one of the alarms in the PID controller itself or a float switch or a ground fault detector... When K1 closes, however briefly, K2 picks up and is latched energized by the NO contact pair in parallel with K1. The only way to release K2 is to push the reset button and that will only de-energize it if the alarm condition no longer pertains (K1 is open).

When K2 energizes the lamp lights and the buzzer sounds. The buzzer can be silenced by pushing the Silence button which latches K3 on thus opening the NC contact pair in series with the buzzer. But the lamp will stay lit until the alarm condition is cleared and the reset button is pressed. This way if you left the room and got an PV+Hy alarm, for example, which only persisted for a few seconds you would know upon your return that something had gone awry.

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Old 11-29-2012, 01:02 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsBrewery
Interesting. May be worth a message to P-J, or hopefully he chimes in as to which way is better, or if it even matters.
Yea, hopefully he chimes in. I hate to message him as I'm sure his services are demanded by many. I was just reading a thread in this subforum and a guy wired his timer to the buzzer wrong and it was going off the whole time it was on until the timer hit zero then it shut off (backwards)! I really don't want that to happen to us.

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Old 11-29-2012, 01:06 AM   #23
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I'm very intrigued by this and am contemplating following your advice. I am struggling a bit completely comprehending the issue of using a switch. Can you clarify what happens if the alarm is accidentally left switched off when the brew session is over and the control panel is turned off?

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Old 11-29-2012, 02:18 AM   #24
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Interesting, it would be nice to be able to disable the audible part of the alarm only. However, I'm not sure that the "reset" feature would be beneficial for what I plan to use it for. Mine will be on a PID used solely to monitor the temperature of the manually fired LP HLT, which I'm sure I won't be precise enough to not over shoot the temp of causing the alarm to continually go off. It would make sense for me to have one on the HEX maybe I'll add that when it is time for version 2.0 when I automate the burner, but for now I'm looking to keep it simple to get my feet wet.

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Old 11-29-2012, 04:25 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by smittygouv30 View Post
I'm very intrigued by this and am contemplating following your advice. I am struggling a bit completely comprehending the issue of using a switch. Can you clarify what happens if the alarm is accidentally left switched off when the brew session is over and the control panel is turned off?
Then the alarm is disabled until you turn the switch back on. It doesn't matter when you do this. The system is then re-armed but if you forget to do it then the system is not. With the two push buttons the alarm is always armed.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:30 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by ajdelange

Then the alarm is disabled until you turn the switch back on. It doesn't matter when you do this. The system is then re-armed but if you forget to do it then the system is not. With the two push buttons the alarm is always armed.
Oh ok I see now. I was completely over thinking that. I do like the idea and can see it being very useful. For most people it seems they are using the combo light/buzzer product. This way they'd be separate devices cut the buzzer via a switch but the light remains illuminated until the system is no longer in an alarmed condition and the reset button is pressed.
I like this, I like this a lot.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:12 AM   #27
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I think ajdelange's sollution is beautiful, but adds a few extra switches and components to your build. My solution - a momentary switch with a NC block. If the alarm goes off and I don't want to hear it, I can hold in the switch long enough to go into the PID settings and turn the alarm off or adjust the alarm condition. You set the alarm for a reason, so the ability to turn a switch to turn the alarm off makes no sense to me. Use the PID to turn off the alarm if you don't want it.

I do like the latching LED idea that tells you an alarm DID go off, but might it be a case of 'too little, too late'? What are you going to do about the fact that your temperature was too high a few minutes ago? If the PID is working, the faulty condition should be fixed already and you're well on your way to making beer.

-Kevin

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Old 11-29-2012, 02:05 PM   #28
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Per request here's another diagram that separates the two alarm outputs available from these controllers. In this circuit if either alarm is set it latches a light dedicated to it on and sounds the buzzer which can, as before, be silenced. Also as before once an alarm condition is detected its lamp stays on until the alarm condition is reduced and the reset button is pushed.

The situation in which the latching is helpful is the one in which, for example, there is a wild overshoot for whatever reason while you are absent. Without latching you would not be aware of this and if the beer turned out to be less than you hoped for you would be puzzled as to why. With latching you'd would at least have the overshoot as a possible explanation. Of course if you stay in the room that can't happen and it's unlikely that such a situation would occur anyway unless an SSR failed on but it's unlikely that such a failure would heal itself. I guess the controller output stage could 'stick' on and heal itself but again, that's unlikely. So I don't really see the alarm circuit of any kind as necessary and don't use them in my brewery(Edit: Actually I do - if the water level gets low enough in the atmospheric tank of my RO system the pump which empties the atmospheric tank gets latched off until a reset button is pushed even if the water level returns to normal). What I do do, however, is record the temperatures (main and decoction vessel) throughout the brew day. If you look carefully at the Auberin 'manual' you will see that there are menu settings for baud rate etc. This tells me that they sell very similar controllers which communicate (probably Modbus). A temperature profile is the ultimate monday morning quarterback's tool.

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Old 11-29-2012, 02:05 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsBrewery View Post
I think ajdelange's sollution is beautiful, but adds a few extra switches and components to your build. My solution - a momentary switch with a NC block. If the alarm goes off and I don't want to hear it, I can hold in the switch long enough to go into the PID settings and turn the alarm off or adjust the alarm condition. You set the alarm for a reason, so the ability to turn a switch to turn the alarm off makes no sense to me. Use the PID to turn off the alarm if you don't want it.

I do like the latching LED idea that tells you an alarm DID go off, but might it be a case of 'too little, too late'? What are you going to do about the fact that your temperature was too high a few minutes ago? If the PID is working, the faulty condition should be fixed already and you're well on your way to making beer.

-Kevin
I agree on all counts. AJ's design is elegant, but has more controls than I want. A momentary switch is also an interesting idea.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:28 PM   #30
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I honestly see myself using my alarms in two ways - one as a head's up when I'm heating towards a goal, so I know to get off my duff and put the homebrew down and start working. The second would be tied to the timer in the SWA-2451.

I do like the idea of a temperature profile to really look back at things, and it would be great if the PID had an option to do data logging or at least provide a usable output to plug into a laptop to log.

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