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Old 04-12-2013, 02:54 PM   #1
theknub
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Default how quickly does your herms step up?

just to check my sanity... curious how quickly other peoples mashes in their herms step up.

doing my 2nd brew on the new rig and decided to do a step mash... for no other reason than... well.... i can.

while my HLT ramped up quick, mlt is about 10-15 minutes behind. it seems normal, but curious what other people are seeing. thanks for any experience notes guys.

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Old 04-12-2013, 03:00 PM   #2
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Mine is about the same as yours 10-15.

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Old 04-12-2013, 05:33 PM   #3
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I've struggled with this myself, and here's the theory behind the slow speed. The rate of temperature change is directly proportional to the difference in temperature between the two environments. Say, for example your HLT is full of boiling water, and your element is running full blast to basically keep it that way. If you pump 33* water through your HEX, it will come out at a fairly decent temperature - I'd wager in the mid 100's depending on the efficency of your coil. So you're experiencing at least a 100* change in temperature right off the bat. Pump that back into your original source, and the water will warm up very quickly. However, as the previously 33* water starts to warm up and get closer to 212*, the temperature change will slow and eventually stall damn close to 212, but not quite at it.

Where am I going with all this? If I'm doing a 10* step, I might set my HLT an extra 10-15* above my target temperature. This larger delta will increase the rate at which my mash heats up. The hard part that I haven't quite qotten down yet is when to reset the HLT temperature to my target temp, so that as the mash heats up, the HLT cools down, and I end up with exactly the temperature I want. I am curious if I reconfigure where my RTD monitors temperature, if it would be smart enough to do all the calculations for me and ramp up quickly without overshooting.

Short story - I have the same issues you guys have, just haven't figured out how to solve it yet.

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Old 04-12-2013, 06:15 PM   #4
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A higher temperature differential will help, and so will a smaller heat exchange vessel because it will heat up and cool down faster. If you follow the logic through, you would use a counterflow chiller with the hot water flow in the jacket governed by a PID controlled pump. Another way to go might be steam injection.

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Old 04-12-2013, 07:30 PM   #5
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well, at least im not nuts. the ratios others see are almost inline with mine.

i have ZERO complaints, i have a 14 G hlt with a 1/2" hex (see sig) and it works great....

just wrapping up brew two with close to 95% efficiency. my west coast brew buddy is crapping himself right now (i'm in NC) and can't believe my numbers...

all said, i'm curious on how quickly people are stepping and exchanging... im guessing if i didn't "clone kal" i'd use a smaller tube with quicker exchange but more variability...

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Old 04-12-2013, 08:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theknub View Post
just wrapping up brew two with close to 95% efficiency. my west coast brew buddy is crapping himself right now (i'm in NC) and can't believe my numbers...
Where are you in NC?

I'm currently working on an Electric Brewery with a 1/2" HERMS coil. I'll be interested to see what I see with my system.
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Old 04-12-2013, 08:31 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsBrewery View Post
Where am I going with all this? If I'm doing a 10* step, I might set my HLT an extra 10-15* above my target temperature. This larger delta will increase the rate at which my mash heats up. The hard part that I haven't quite qotten down yet is when to reset the HLT temperature to my target temp, so that as the mash heats up, the HLT cools down, and I end up with exactly the temperature I want. I am curious if I reconfigure where my RTD monitors temperature, if it would be smart enough to do all the calculations for me and ramp up quickly without overshooting.

Short story - I have the same issues you guys have, just haven't figured out how to solve it yet.
Well, that is interesting. For any rest other than the saccrification rest, this probably won't be too bad, since the step ranges aren't nearly as tight as the saccrification rest requires.
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Old 04-12-2013, 10:22 PM   #8
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Yes, I think that's true.

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Old 04-14-2013, 03:39 PM   #9
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Where are you in NC?

I'm currently working on an Electric Brewery with a 1/2" HERMS coil. I'll be interested to see what I see with my system.
modo, i am in durham. where are you?
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:42 PM   #10
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The main factors affecting the rate of temp ramp in your mash tun are thermal mass of the mash and flow rates thru your herms or rims. That assumes that you have adequate heating power in your HLT or rims. I had very rapid ramp ups when I was making 15 gallon batches and my HLT/herms had two 4500 watt elements. When I increased my batch size to 30 gallons, I could only use the HLT/herms to maintain temps during the mash. The rate limiting factor for me was rate of flow thru the herms coil relative to the size of the mash (thermal mass). The temp at the output of the herms coil comes up to set temp very quickly but the mash temp moves so slowly that it is not practical to do multistep mashes.

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