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Old 12-16-2012, 12:23 AM   #1
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Default Hop Rehab E-Herms build

Hello all,
I've changed my mind about 1000x's since deciding to construct a HERMS system about 4 months ago. The idea started off very very small and gradually built and built into what it is today. I blame this site, theelectricbrewery.com, auberins.com, and ebrewsupply.com for giving us wanna-be DIYers the confidence (or stupidity, however you look at it) to try to put together things of this magnitude.
None-the-less, I was initially going to try to keep and keep this thing at 120V so I didn't have to mess with the electrical in my house. After researching the installation process of a 30A 240V breaker, a 4 prong dryer receptacle, and a spa panel I felt it was simple enough to not let it hold me back! So here I am. I've revamped my plan to now include a single 240v 5500W element controlled by a SYL-2352. A second SYL-2352 will be installed for MLT temperature readings with utilization of its alarm features to monitor abnormal temperatures and inform me when the sparge temp is reached. A timer (JSL-71) will also be included. No electric boil kettle as I will continue to control the boil with propane. Lastly, the control panel will have switches to turn on/off 2 pumps, and a switch to turn off the element. For now I've chosen to not include an e-stop mostly because I think they are hideous, but have a feeling i'm going to be talked into including it.

I have yet to order my electrical parts but have finally sat down to design the control panel face. I have a a bunch of wiring diagrams saved to my desktop that I have jacked from other build threads. I plan to hack them all up in the coming week or two to come up with something that will suit my build. I have been back and forth deciding if I want to beg PJ to help me out, but for now I will resist. Regardless, I will certainly require lots of help/feedback along the way. A special thanks to badnewsbrewery for all of his guidance thus far.

One of the things unique about my build is that I want to use a digital photo frame as my "Power on" indicator instead of a plane ol' boring blue light . It looks like it'll be straight forward to wire, as the frame comes with an AC power adapter. I'm not quite sure how I'll mount it but I'm thinking i'll just put a slit in the control panel and slide the thin leg stand on the back of the frame inside the panel and seal it with some silicone to keep anything from getting into the panel. I think it has potential to look very cool but the negative is it takes up a lot of space on the panel front. Any thoughts on this? Cool idea or is it going to look "cheesy"? http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...=ATVPDKIKX0DER

Here is my control panel face which should be to scale:

File Type: pdf Control Panel Final.pdf (249.8 KB, 166 views)
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Old 12-16-2012, 03:06 PM   #2
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I'd also be interested to hear others input about alarm controls. As of now I just have one on/off switch that will control one buzzer. Inputs to the buzzer will come from one PID to as well as the timer. Will I regret not having individual on/off switches for each. I see many builds that have reset buttons and on/off switches, both. I just don't want to regret anything once I get this thing built.

Also, I've tried re-attaching my control panel image as it wasn't showing up on my phone when I checked the thread this morning.

Corey

control-panel-final-2-.jpg  
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:17 AM   #3
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Finally finished my wiring diagram. Please don't hold back, be as critical as you can. I had zero electrical knowledge prior to becoming a home brewer. Now I have zero electrical knowledge plus a working grain mill, keezer, and temperature controlled fermentation chamber.

I'm seeking feedback on everything, but specifically panel design, safety of the panel, and of course making sure it will work.

Thanks,
Corey

hop-rehab-wiring-diagram.jpg  
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:52 AM   #4
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I like the idea of not using a simple blue LED - I have been building a back-light logo box for mine, should be visually stunning when finished. So definitely keep your picture frame if that's what you want to do!

Wiring diagram - the 25A breaker should have the Black AND Red lines run to it - it's a dual pole breaker.

I'm not sure what pin 8 is on the Timer, but why are you powering it from the alarm of your PID on the right? Does the alarm-out condition from the PID activate something on the timer?

For safety, the EPO argument can be made. I'm not sure if anyone has ever actually used their EPO in an emergency setting, but hey... better safe than sorry.
-Kevin

Edit - your pump switches show that you want LEDs. You may want to consider an illuminated switch - then the LED is integrated into the switch, saving you an extra hole in the control panel.

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Building a Bad News Brewery - eHERMS

2014:
5gal Scottish Wee Heavy
5gal Saison
15gal American Pale Ale
20gal Belgian Wit
10gal Oktoberfest
10gal Southern Pecan Ale

Keg 1: Apfelwein
Keg 2: Oktoberfest
Keg 3: American Pale Ale
Fermenting: Southern Pecan
On Deck: Winter Spice Ale

Reason: Idea to reduce clutter
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:49 PM   #5
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Think of the estop as an on/off switch that is easier to use. Depending on how it is wired the estop and on/off switch can be redundant.

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Old 12-17-2012, 05:45 PM   #6
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Hey Kevin,

Thanks for the feedback. Yea I don't know why I didn't add the second hot line to the dual pole breaker. I blame it on my brain being mush from the hours of reading/researching I did yesterday prior to putting together the wiring diagram. I have fixed that now.

As for pin 8 on the timer that should be the alarm output that will join together with the PID outputs from pin 1 and 14. I just put it together sloppy so you couldn't tell that it was jumping over the timer power inputs at 6 and 9. This is also fixed now.

I thought about the illuminated switches/pushbuttons for my pumps. To me I don't think it looks as clean which is why I went with the standard black switches and a green LED.

I get the whole EPO switch for safety. Honestly my main reason for not wanting one is I think they look really cheesy. Like I said I think I can be convinced but seriously what is the difference between squishing the "hideous gigantic red mushroom" or flipping the 2-way power on/off switch, .003 seconds? The thing that is going to be the problem is how long it takes for me to move from wherever I am standing to the control panel, not how long it takes me to push the button vs turn the switch. Of course this is all in my very biased opinion.

Corey

hop-rehab-wiring-diagram.jpg  
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:01 PM   #7
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Thanks for clarifying the Pin 1/4 - Pin 8 thing - makes sense now.

To each their own on the switches - I think one single hole, one single switch looks cleaner than a switch and an LED, but you're not building me a panel so what I think on 'clean' doesn't mean much.

I am risk averse so I believe an EPO is a good idea, and I don't think it looks goofy. I am also logical and can't really think of any situation where anyone would NEED to hit the EPO. Maybe someone on here has had some sort of istance, but unless you had some serious arcing in the panel that didn't blow the GFCI, I'm not sure what you'd need it for - but say you think you need one anyways... the gross motor movement required to slap a big mushroom button is FAR simpler than grabbing and turning a key. Additionally (depending on how you chose to wire it), the EPO will kill power to your entire panel, including the feed. Your key switch just kills power downstream of the main contactor.

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Building a Bad News Brewery - eHERMS

2014:
5gal Scottish Wee Heavy
5gal Saison
15gal American Pale Ale
20gal Belgian Wit
10gal Oktoberfest
10gal Southern Pecan Ale

Keg 1: Apfelwein
Keg 2: Oktoberfest
Keg 3: American Pale Ale
Fermenting: Southern Pecan
On Deck: Winter Spice Ale
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:15 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsBrewery View Post
the gross motor movement required to slap a big mushroom button is FAR simpler than grabbing and turning a key. Additionally (depending on how you chose to wire it), the EPO will kill power to your entire panel, including the feed. Your key switch just kills power downstream of the main contactor.
But is it though? I'm wondering what the percentage time difference would be? I should time myself setting my beer down, jumping from my lawn chair and slapping an EPO vs setting my beer down, jumping from my lawn chair and turning a 2-way switch off. My guess is that it is less than a 5% difference in time. Is that enough to save a life? I don't know. Maybe that's the question?

That's a good point about the EPO tripping the panel and feed instead of just the panel. I hadn't thought of that but I suppose error could happen between the spa panel and the panel power in. Good point my friend.

Corey
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Old 12-17-2012, 11:15 PM   #9
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Think gross motor movements though. Panic reactions. Handling keys and dealing with activities requiring dexterity may be challenging if you're in a situation that would warrant using an EPO

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Building a Bad News Brewery - eHERMS

2014:
5gal Scottish Wee Heavy
5gal Saison
15gal American Pale Ale
20gal Belgian Wit
10gal Oktoberfest
10gal Southern Pecan Ale

Keg 1: Apfelwein
Keg 2: Oktoberfest
Keg 3: American Pale Ale
Fermenting: Southern Pecan
On Deck: Winter Spice Ale
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Old 12-18-2012, 12:01 AM   #10
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Point taken. I don't plan to use keys just a standard switch so that should further reduce time. You are doing a nice job with the persuasion, I think I'm almost there. What are your thoughts on the alarm set-up. I know you set-up individual on/off switches. Do you see any problem with one 2-way switch to turn on/off both alarm outputs?

Thanks,
Corey

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