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Old 01-07-2013, 11:17 PM   #1
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Default Help modifying diagram for 2 power inputs

In another thread I started, I explained that my 220 service has two hots and a ground and no neutral. A couple members suggested I run both my existing 220 and my existing 120 into one control box.

This is the schematic for the panel I'd like to build. As you can see, its got 2 elements, 1 pid, and two pumps, for a 3 vessel, single tier herms. (thanks P-J)



Could any one help modify it for two power inputs? (110v and 220v)

Also, how would i add gfci protection? For the 120 line, would it be best to install a gfci breaker in the main panel? Can my 220 line still be run through a spa panel? If so, how would this diagram be modified for h-h-g?



Any help or advice is greatly appreciated!

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Old 01-07-2013, 11:47 PM   #2
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First issue: You are dealing with NEW electrical work. Therefore it must comply with current electrical code. The 3 wire power is indeed 2 hots and a ground (current code).

I suggest that you have an electrician pull new wire for your system (4 wire - black, red, white and ground).

Play it safe, do it right & do not play 'You Bet Your Life!'

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Old 01-07-2013, 11:58 PM   #3
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First issue: You are dealing with NEW electrical work. Therefore it must comply with current electrical code. The 3 wire power is indeed 2 hots and a ground (current code).
What do you mean that they are new? Both the 220 and 120 are already installed and were already installed when I purchased the home in 2008.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:07 AM   #4
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What do you mean that they are new? Both the 220 and 120 are already installed and were already installed when I purchased the home in 2008.
The wiring is not complete based on the pictures and information you posted. Therefore it is new work and MUST comply with current code when the wiring is completed.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:11 AM   #5
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Gotcha! Thanks for your help! But your saying my existing h-h-g wiring would work for that spa panel diagram? maybe I was reading that wrong, I thought it was hot-hot-neutral coming from the main panel, in the diagram.

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Old 01-08-2013, 12:41 AM   #6
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Gotcha! Thanks for your help! But your saying my existing h-h-g wiring would work for that spa panel diagram? maybe I was reading that wrong, I thought it was hot-hot-neutral coming from the main panel, in the diagram.
That would have been true if the wiring was completed prior to the changes in the NEC.

The typical dryer (at that time) was a 240V - 120V device. It was powered with a 3 wire circuit (hot, hot & neutral) With todays code a 3 wire circuit for 240V is hot, hot & ground.

New plan different ball game.

Please think this whole thing through. If something goes wrong you are WAY out on the covereage you might think you have.

You only have one chance to do things right.

Be very careful.

P-J
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:37 AM   #7
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P-J, just to clarify: I believe he does have H-H-G for his existing wiring. Does that conform to code if one is using 240V circuits only (no 120V)? If it does not conform to code, then we can ignore the rest.

If it does, then I would think one could wire the spa panel with H-H-G in and H-H-G out, and get GFCI protection. Is that correct?

As to the original questions, your 120V would be a completely separate circuit, and the best way to get GFCI protection is to just get a 120v GFCI outlet at a hardware store, and replace your current wall outlet. Inside your control panel you would need an input for 240v and a separate input for 120v. You would run the 240v H-H-G to your elements, your 120v H-N-G to all of your 120v devices, and and bring all the grounds together the same as you would if you only had one input. Worth a diagram, assuming that there is not a code issue.

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Old 01-08-2013, 02:56 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by jeffmeh View Post
P-J, just to clarify: I believe he does have H-H-G for his existing wiring. Does that conform to code if one is using 240V circuits only (no 120V)? If it does not conform to code, then we can ignore the rest.

If it does, then I would think one could wire the spa panel with H-H-G in and H-H-G out, and get GFCI protection. Is that correct?

As to the original questions, your 120V would be a completely separate circuit, and the best way to get GFCI protection is to just get a 120v GFCI outlet at a hardware store, and replace your current wall outlet. Inside your control panel you would need an input for 240v and a separate input for 120v. You would run the 240v H-H-G to your elements, your 120v H-N-G to all of your 120v devices, and and bring all the grounds together the same as you would if you only had one input. Worth a diagram, assuming that there is not a code issue.
Yes. You have it right.

He is welcome to develop a diagram for that application and then be within current code.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:06 AM   #9
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Yes. You have it right.

He is welcome to develop a diagram for that application and then be within current code.
That was actually my original question, can someone help me modify the control panel diagram I posted, to have two power inputs - 220 for the elements, and 120 for everything else.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffmeh View Post
P-J, just to clarify: I believe he does have H-H-G for his existing wiring. Does that conform to code if one is using 240V circuits only (no 120V)? If it does not conform to code, then we can ignore the rest.

If it does, then I would think one could wire the spa panel with H-H-G in and H-H-G out, and get GFCI protection. Is that correct?

As to the original questions, your 120V would be a completely separate circuit, and the best way to get GFCI protection is to just get a 120v GFCI outlet at a hardware store, and replace your current wall outlet. Inside your control panel you would need an input for 240v and a separate input for 120v. You would run the 240v H-H-G to your elements, your 120v H-N-G to all of your 120v devices, and and bring all the grounds together the same as you would if you only had one input. Worth a diagram, assuming that there is not a code issue.
And thank you for clarifying my original post. I must not have typed it out correctly, but what you said is exactly what I'm after.
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