Element rust no more!

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You'll be set. How are you planning on installing the anode?

Mine are working great.

Just brewed again with them today. I filled both my HLT and BK with strike and sparge water last night and not a speck of rust.



Thanks bbognerks for the idea!
 
its interesting that so many people report these to be taking care of rust. sacrificial annodes are used to prevent galvanic corrosion. rust is simple oxidation of iron, which is a completely different and unrelated process. if there is iron and oxygen present, no cathode should be able to prevent them from combining and forming rust.

for protection from galvanic corrosion, the sacrificial annode must be electrically connected to the galvanic system. i wouldnt expect just tossing it into the pot to have a significant effect.

maybe since magnesium is way below even iron on the galvanic table, the iron is acting as a cathode and is getting a layer of Mg deposited on it...? either that or the magnesium rod is scrubbing the liquid of all free O2 molecules to make an oxide of magnesium instead of making iron oxide. in which case, your beer is going to be full of magnesium hydroxide... (aka- milk of magnesia)
 
Do you think it has something to do with the fact that the element faces are made of several different metals? So maybe the outside layer corrodes which then exposes metal that's more prone to rusting. I have no idea, just wondering, Regarding Magnesium, the OP had his water analyzed and it didn't show any increase in just MG, just all the minerals went up a bit from being more concentrated. It has seemed to work for me, so I'd like to know why.
 
wyzazz said:
Voodoo Magic! :fro:
Click to expand...

Hey, I'll take it!

BTW, someone here somewhere mentioned what the element faces were made of, and I thought it was more than just mild steel but I can't seem to find the info or am just not remembering it right, so maybe it is voodoo!
 
jsguitar said:
It has seemed to work for me, so I'd like to know why.
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yea i wasnt trying to rain on anyones parade at all. i just cant understand why it should be working... as it does appear to be from several peoples reports. i would assume that the base of most elements would be mild steel plated with something like chromium, or possibly stainless.

and i do not think that you would ever get anymore than trace amounts of magnesium from those sticks. certainly nothing dangerous. the suggested daily intake of magnesium for adults is around 400mg, and there is no suggested maximum, or official level where it becomes toxic.
 
audger said:
yea i wasnt trying to rain on anyones parade at all. i just cant understand why it should be working... as it does appear to be from several peoples reports. i would assume that the base of most elements would be mild steel plated with something like chromium, or possibly stainless.
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No worries, I didn't think you were crapping on the idea at all. I'd also be interested to hear an explanation. I'd also like to know why some of us get rust and others don't with the same set ups. It's got to have something to do with water chemistry I'd think, but this is beyond anything I know about.
 
From Wikipedia - Rust A form of preventing rust is Cathodic Protection
Cathodic protection is a technique used to inhibit corrosion on buried or immersed structures by supplying an electrical charge that suppresses the electro-chemical reaction. If correctly applied, corrosion can be stopped completely. In its simplest form, it is achieved by attaching a sacrificial anode, thereby making the iron or steel the cathode in the cell formed. The sacrificial anode must be made from something with a more negative electrode potential than the iron or steel, commonly zinc, aluminium, or magnesium.
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Wikipedia - Cathodic Protection

All I know is that this technique has been in use for over 100 years on boats. If it's magic then so be it, lol. But this is what I found researching it.
 
What size threads does the anode have? Can I use a nut,washer, and O-ring to go weldless? And if so what diameter do I need?
 
After brewing a few batches I've notice nasty rust on the hlt and none on the boil. I'm brewing tomorrow and planned to just swap the elements. Do you think that will solve the problem? I had a feeling that something in the wort had a sealing effect on the metal.
 
devilbrewer75 said:
After brewing a few batches I've notice nasty rust on the hlt and none on the boil. I'm brewing tomorrow and planned to just swap the elements. Do you think that will solve the problem? I had a feeling that something in the wort had a sealing effect on the metal.
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That's the whole point of this thread... Install a magnesium anode to SOLVE the problem. Swapping elements will not solve anything. You'll end up with 2 rusty elements... The wort doesn't "seal" anything. It's acidic which prevents the rust from forming. As soon as you use plain old water, the base will rust again.
 
Does anyone have any experience with the heating elements that have a built in anode by the base?
 
kal said:
Got any links or model numbers? Manufacturer name?

Kal
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I have these exact ones, except mine are 5500w.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/250954532816
They are sandhog brand, I don't have a part # I bought them from a member here on hbt. But you can see in the eBay picture there is some sort af anode at the base. It doesn't look aluminum to me. I'm not sure what kind of metal it is.
 
audger said:
yea i wasnt trying to rain on anyones parade at all. i just cant understand why it should be working... as it does appear to be from several peoples reports. i would assume that the base of most elements would be mild steel plated with something like chromium, or possibly stainless.
Click to expand...

It works only when there is an electrical connection between the Mg and Fe in the element. If you look up the standard reduction potentials of those two metals, you'll find that Mg has a far more negative reduction potential. Therefore when electrically connected to the Fe in your element, the 2 or 3 electrons (depending on whether you're oxidizing to the +2 or +3 state) that the Fe would normally lose in the 'rusting' process are replaced by 2 from the magnesium. Essentially what this is doing is instead of the Fe acting as the anode, it becomes the cathode when connected to Mg due to the difference in their standard reduction potentials.

Sorry if this is a bit too much - I'm a chemist... but in a nutshell - electrically connected = will work. :mug:
 
JRems said:
I have these exact ones, except mine are 5500w.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/250954532816
They are sandhog brand, I don't have a part # I bought them from a member here on hbt. But you can see in the eBay picture there is some sort af anode at the base. It doesn't look aluminum to me. I'm not sure what kind of metal it is.
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Interesting! I've never seen these before. That would appear to be a pretty elegant solution, but without knowing what the anode is, it's hard to recommend. If it's Mg that would be great!

It's ULWD just by looking a the length which is good. (pretty much has to be at 4500W).

Kal
 
kevink said:
Has anyone ever cut one of these anodes in half so it doesn't stick into the kettle so far? It seems like 4 1/2" is a little much.
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The bases of the Camco anodes are steel, the Mg part is on the end, so cutting them really isn't an option.
 
durban said:
The bases of the Camco anodes are steel, the Mg part is on the end, so cutting them really isn't an option.
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Why is cutting them not an option? I'm talking about cutting half of the Mg part off to make it about half as long. I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

51lo%2BeijWoL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
 
kevink said:
Why is cutting them not an option? I'm talking about cutting half of the Mg part off to make it about half as long. I'm not sure what you're trying to say.
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I'd be curious if the rod is solid or not. The larger anode rods that I've seen in a water heater have had a regular steel core inside the magnesium rod. The way I understand it, the magnesium corrodes away over time as opposed to your water heater interior but I could be incorrect. In theory, replacing this rod once it corrodes extends your water heater life but I've yet to talk to anyone that has actually done this.

I've seen some larger anode rods that say they can be cut to length so perhaps some are solid. If so, and if this works for rusting, seems like someone could cut up a 48" rod into 1" pieces and thread the end for a nice compact solution.
 
It wont matter if you cut the anode and expose its steel core. As long as there is electrical continuity between the Mg and the steel, the Mg will preferentially corrode while the steel will stay rust free.

This image shows a new vs. old anode...

lranode1.jpg
 
Furthermore, the Camco RV Mg anodes in this thread have the steel/aluminum core visible as soon as you get them anyways. Like they were cut from a bigger rod. Hasn't had any negative effects. Not that I ever thought it would cause a problem. Mg will corrode regardless what it's wrapped around, touching, etc... As long as there is an electrical connection to what it's protecting that is.
 
I'm not even all that worried about the anode rod corroding away. I imagine we'd have to have quite a bit of contact time before there would even be the hint of corrosion.

I'm still in the process of converting over to electric but I'm curious to see where this goes. If it works (and doesn't poison us in the process), I could see cutting up some anode rods to thread into a 1/2" FPT half coupler.
 
jpalarchio said:
I'm not even all that worried about the anode rod corroding away. I imagine we'd have to have quite a bit of contact time before there would even be the hint of corrosion.
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Yup. I doubt you'd ever see anything.

A hot water tank's full of water 24/7. For someone who brews a lot, the HLT may see 4-5 hours of us probably ever 2 weeks.

If you do the math, that's 67 times less. So if the anode lasts 5-10 years in a regular hot water tank, that's 335-670 years of brewing before you'll notice anything.

I'm still in the process of converting over to electric but I'm curious to see where this goes. If it works (and doesn't poison us in the process), I could see cutting up some anode rods to thread into a 1/2" FPT half coupler.
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The anode is magnesium. Many of us add extra magnesium in the form of brewing salts. Some here have also sent off before & after boil samples of water to Ward Labs for analysis and there was no difference in terms of Mg or other salts.

Kal
 
It's the base of the element that rusts and most of them are not SS even if the element itself is.
 
You'd be surprised to know that you can indeed see corrosion on the rod. I've been using mine for about a year and it's noticeable. It also tends to flake off towards the bottom while water is sitting in it. Granted, it will still probably last at least 5-10 years, but you can see it corroding. I think the corrosion is sped up due to the fact that it isn't submerged 24/7. Pure speculation, but I think the wetting and drying repeatedly causes it to corrode faster. I can take a pic of mine after 1 year of use if anyone is interested.

To back up Kal on the Ward labs analysis, I actually did send it off and you can find that info earlier in this thread. The Mg anode does not increase the levels at all. The Mg level increase is proportionate to all the other solids due to the evaporation/concentration during a 1 hour boil.
 
kal said:
The anode is magnesium. Many of us add extra magnesium in the form of brewing salts. Some here have also sent off before & after boil samples of water to Ward Labs for analysis and there was no difference in terms of Mg or other salts.

Kal
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Does that mean adding enough Magnesium in the form of brewing salts would be enough to act as an anode? Or would that just take way too much salt?

I'm curious about all of this - I'm debating switching over to electric and the possible rust issues on the element is one of the biggest concerns I have. I don't want to be scrubbing off rust after every brew and/or removing the element all the time for cleaning/scrubbing/rust removal.

It's just weird how some people have issues and other people don't, even though most of the key equipment (brand/type of element) is the same.
My buddy has rust issues which is what makes me nervous....tho we are on different water systems so that could make a difference....

I guess you just can't know for sure until you build your kettle and get a couple batches under your belt and see what happens?
 
DustBow said:
Does that mean adding enough Magnesium in the form of brewing salts would be enough to act as an anode? Or would that just take way too much salt?
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No, that won't work.

DustBow said:
I'm curious about all of this - I'm debating switching over to electric and the possible rust issues on the element is one of the biggest concerns I have. I don't want to be scrubbing off rust after every brew and/or removing the element all the time for cleaning/scrubbing/rust removal.

It's just weird how some people have issues and other people don't, even though most of the key equipment (brand/type of element) is the same.
My buddy has rust issues which is what makes me nervous....tho we are on different water systems so that could make a difference....

I guess you just can't know for sure until you build your kettle and get a couple batches under your belt and see what happens?
Click to expand...

If you are concerned about possibly having rust, spend the extra $20 on fittings and an anode and do it right. Why worry about it? Just prevent it. Adding an anode has no ill effects and it mostly guarantees you won't have rust... In the grand scheme of things, if you are going electric, $20 isn't going to break the budget.
 
I agree - do it once, do it right.
Just trying to figure out how many weldess/welded points I'm going to need....might as well just add one for the anode and be done with it.
The elements with the anode attached are interesting, but maybe not worth messing with if we don't have much/any experience or feedback with them
 
I wonder how many of the people without the rust problem are using aluminum pots? Wouldn't the aluminum do the same thing as the magnesium since it's almost as good of an anode?
 
An aluminum pot probably works due to the sheer surface area of it and less electrical resistance from connections and dissimilar metals. I can definitely say an aluminum anode doesn't work in a SS converted keg with my water.
 
DustBow said:
The elements with the anode attached are interesting, but maybe not worth messing with if we don't have much/any experience or feedback with them
Click to expand...

Considering I couldn't find a 5500 watt version easily, I'll stick with a separate anode. Even the 4500 watt I only found in a couple places. I'd rather have something I can easily replace if needed.
 
My ULWD Camco rusted after the first use only. Never saw anymore I cannot imagine that a sacrificial will do anything over this short of a use the element base is still going to rust even with the sacrificial installed. They are designed for water heaters with water stored long term. The question on my mind is: what are the effects (if any) of such a small amount of iron in your wort?
 

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