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**eccsynd** · 11-04-2009, 04:45 AM

Excellent primer CodeRage. Thanks for posting this. Sticky in DIY!

Sawdustguy · 11-04-2009, 12:33 PM

Very much needed here. Thanks for writing it up.

**pickles** · 11-04-2009, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scut_Monkey

Thank you very much for the write up. I think it's an excellent idea for HBT and I think it most definitely should be STICKIED especially if you are going to relate this more to our brewing applications.

However, I am a little confused on one particular aspect, the neutral line. From your description it seems that the neutral comes in from the main service line and then goes into the breaker panel where it is then attached to the "main" ground wire and this is the only area in the house where they meet. I think I have this part correct but correct me if I do not. Where I become more confused is why someone would attach a groundwire to the neutral line at a particular load. Is this ever acceptable and why would you not simply attach the ground to a ground wire? Are people doing this if they did not run a ground wire to their brewstand? Just confused is all.

I think the this can be an issue if someone installs a sub panel. Panels usually come with a bonding strip (or bonding screw) to bond the ground to neutral bus bar if it is to be used as a MAIN panel. However, as SUB PANEL the ground and neutral should be isolated from each other. This is the case with my current installation in my garage.

FreakinA · 11-04-2009, 04:54 PM

Sticky? 8 9 10

**JVD_X** · 11-04-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreakinA

Sticky? 8 9 10

no wiki it

**CodeRage** · 11-04-2009, 06:01 PM

Scut Monkey:
Ground and Neutral should never be tied together. A while ago it was kind of an accepted practice to use Ground as a neutral, now it is a major violation. If you have neutral bonded to ground any where they need to be separated. The bottom line is the ground conductor should only ever carry current in case of an emergency. Here is something to consider. Say you do have neutral and ground bonded at the device and for some reason the neutral gets disconnected some where else in the system. It should kill power to everything on that circuit. Well the device that has neutral and ground bonded will use the ground instead of the neutral and stay powered up. You know have steady current flowing on the ground through the circuit. Say there is a toaster on that same circuit and it's chassis is attached to ground, will that chassis now has current/potential flowing through it. If something should touch it with less resistance to ground (you are standing on a wet floor in the kitchen barefoot) it becomes the new path to ground and starts to carry all the current. I hope that illustrates the importance of it.

samc,
I added a device protection section, I'll revise it for SSRs here in a second.

Munsoned · 11-04-2009, 06:33 PM

I can't sticky or wiki, but I can at least give this thread a "PROST!"

Scut_Monkey · 11-04-2009, 06:35 PM

CodeRage:

Thank you for elaborating. I definitely see how it would be very dangerous to join the ground and neutral. Makes me wonder why it was acceptable in the past. I will have to check my dryer outlet (240V) for safety also in case I decide to go the electric rig route someday. My house was built in 1973 and I believe Brewbeemer stated that they sometimes did this for dryer outlets back in the day. Looking forward to more literature when you have the time to share, thanks again!

- Prosted!

**CodeRage** · 11-04-2009, 07:03 PM

My house was built in 79 and the dryer was done the same way. I ran a separate ground all the way back to my main panel and moved the old dryer's ground to neutral.
I believe it was acceptable back then because it was the only device at the end of a dedicated run. Honestly it was done just to save a single conductor. If you do run a separate ground make sure it is at least the same size wire as the service or larger.

**pickles** · 11-04-2009, 08:21 PM

coderage: I see that you've updated OP; can you highlight additions/edits to make it easier than rereading the whole thing? sorry for being picky but I don't want to miss anything.