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Old 01-09-2011, 02:15 AM   #131
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I've got a question. Are "time Delay" fuses the same as "Slow Blow" fuses? thanks
Pretty much. They are generally used in circuits with motors because of the high start up current.
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Old 01-09-2011, 05:14 PM   #132
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Thanks, I was at menard's yesterday, and I found .25A Fast Acting fuses for my control box, and they had Time delay fuses. I assumed they were the same as Slow Blow, just wanted to make sure.

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Old 02-16-2011, 12:18 AM   #133
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To all the brewers who provided great information, thank you.
I start writing answers to some of these questions and then have to re-edit my responses because I need to get more detailed. I want to try (as I’m sure others do) and cover as many bases as possible so no one gets hurt or killed. Respect The Volts! (I know it’s current, but it doesn’t sound as good…)
SAFETY FIRST. As has been mentioned in this thread, electricity will kill you fast. Yes, it’s sometimes a PITA to go to the panel and shut off a breaker, but you’ll still be alive. (From my point of view, it’s probably the most exercise I’ll get all day.)
An inexpensive multimeter is a worthwhile investment. Flexible leads will also make your life easier. Some cheap azz meters/cord combos have cords that are too stiff and can wind up pulling the meter off a table or shelf, causing you to become distracted. The meter should also have slot at the top of the meter to put one of the probes in. This way you can put the meter/probe on the neutral bus and use the other lead to measure power at the breaker or hot terminal.
Don’t assume that the person who did the wiring before you did it correctly. If you have to assume anything, assume that the previous homeowner or landlord was the stupidest person on earth. Check first and be sure! Some houses have had more than one owner, which means more opportunities to have something done wrong. Homeowner #1, “Wiring For Dummies” in one hand, screwdriver in the other, “I don’t have the time to run to get the right parts, I’ll just take a short cut.”
The National Electric Code (NEC) is NOT law by itself. Municipalities, governments, etc. usually use a current version of the NEC (Most current is the 2011.) For example, here on Long Island, some towns use the ’05 code, others use the ’08 code. They take the NEC and make it law and usually amend it to make it more stringent. If you need to consult the NEC, I would suggest using the NEC code handbook. It’s the same code, but has explanations of some of the Fine Print Notes and diagrams, etc.
BrewBeemer, I like when people quote the NEC here, it gives me the chance to look up the citation and learn more.
Also, no matter what we say here, the final word lies with the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ). Some places use an independent inspection company, others use an inspector from the Building Dept., or Power Company (POCO). Be nice to the inspector. They can make your life hell. If you have a question, ask it. Most inspectors will be happy to answer your questions or provide an explanation.
SUB PANELS. Like Pickles said, keep ground and neutral buses isolated from each other. Ground bus bonded to the panel itself, not the neutral. The neutral doesn’t get bonded to anything in the panel. Grounds to the ground bus and neutrals to the neutral bus, no mixing and matching.
Hermit. “Check from the third wire, whether it is neutral or ground, and see if you get voltage. Sinks, wall plugs if they have the third wire, copper plumbing, etc. If you get voltage between the two then you have problems. Chances are you won't see anything. Check from a hot to the test ground to make sure it is in fact grounded. But yes, in a properly wired environment neutral and ground are virtually the same. The earth ground is used to have a common reference. If you are pretty far from the transformer or have some other unusual circumstance, then they may not be the same.” With the advent of more and more plastic in our lives, using plumbing as a ground reference may not always work. At one time panels were grounded to the water main. Then we had to add a jumper to bridge the meter to the “street” side of the meter (rubber gaskets/Teflon tape may isolate the meter from the rest of the plumbing). Now some areas are using plastic pipe to deliver water to your house. Goodbye nice grounding point.

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Old 02-16-2011, 10:54 PM   #134
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Hello all you electric brewers!

I just joined this site, and would love to participate in the electric brewing forum. We are relatively new to brewing, less then 12 batches, all extract. I believe the only way we'll ever try all grain brewing is to go electric.

You see I'm currently a systems integrator working in the mineing industry. I'm also a journyman electrician, and would like to learn how to brew using all grain methods, so I can create and automate a system. My first choise would be using a simple PLC, like a Modicom Momentum, or AB Micrologic to regulate pH, and temp durning the mash. I think this method would be better then a single loop PID controller as one could run multiple PID's and multiple I\O's.


BTW, Shuie, are you on Pelican Parts BBS?

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Old 02-16-2011, 11:03 PM   #135
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Good to have yah 941MxVet and welcome to the board!

I'm a systems integrator for the fresh and waste water industry myself. Sure you don't want to try a coal fired brewery?

Guess that would be like me using methane from a solid waste digester. pass...

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Old 02-16-2011, 11:26 PM   #136
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Thanks for the welcome CodeRage!

I work in the gold mineing industry though, not coal. I automate the extraction of gold from it's host rock through the Merrill Crowe process. This entails grinding, leaching with cyanide, plenty of de-arration, lead introduction, DE, as well as filter presses. I'm sure if you work in waste water you're familar with Perrin filter presses, we use the same units.

I think I'll be looking to improve my homebrewing so we can justify building an all grain home brewery!

Again thanks for the welcome, I'll be spending quite some time reading through these threads.

Rob

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Old 04-25-2011, 11:47 PM   #137
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So, a quick general theory question.

If you have a 240v heating element wired up, touching each hot leg to neutral will be sitting at 120v(or whatever it actually is in reality).
Now, in terms of amperage, if that element is drawing 22 amps at 240v, is the load split between the two legs? That is, if you measure the amperage on Hot A, will it be 11 amps or 22?

I ask because my intention is to essentially build a stripped down version of Kal's panel with a 3 position switch for two 5500w 240v elements plus the ability to run a 120v 1200ish watt element at the same time as one of the 5500's.


I initially thought of this question when I was trying to figure out of a 30 amp relay could handle a 22 amp 240v load as well as a 120v 10 amp load. My thinking was that each leg would be handling 11 amps from the 240v element plus one leg handling an additional 10 amps from the 120v load.


Basically, I'm confused.

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Old 04-26-2011, 12:09 AM   #138
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Now, in terms of amperage, if that element is drawing 22 amps at 240v, is the load split between the two legs? That is, if you measure the amperage on Hot A, will it be 11 amps or 22?
Current will not split between the 2 legs, it will be the same through the whole circuit so 22 amps will flow through one side and then out the other.
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Old 04-26-2011, 12:23 AM   #139
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So, a quick general theory question.
...
Basically, I'm confused.
No worries man, if its a new concept and can be difficult to get your head around it.

Lets call the two hots L1 and L2 then the Neutral. if you measure voltage from L1 to L2 you will read 240V. To make it easier to understand, we'll treat it like a DC circuit, forget the AC stuff for now.

Imagine L1 has a voltage of 120V and L2 has a voltage of -120V, neutral has 0V.

if you measure from L1 to L2 you get 240, and if you measure from any L to Neutral you will get and absolute value of 120.

Now current is a measurement of volume, just like gallons of water in a flowing pipe. It's just a quantity of electrons, instead of gallons, it's amps.

So if you put a 'pipe' between L1 and L2 with a 'valve' (resistor) in it, it limits the flow. What ever electrons go into L1 (22A) will come out of L2. So Amps in = Amps out.

Put another 'pipe' between L1 and N with a different 'valve' between it. Electrons will flow from L1 to N, and what ever the volume is (10A) will come out Neutral.

So if you measure the current from L1 before it goes into the pipes to L2 and N, you will read 22+10A =32A;
If you measure the current flowing through Neutral it will be -10A (negative cause it is leaving).
If you measure the current flowing through L2 it will be -22A.
So, L1+L2+N = 32 + (-22) + (-10)=0;


This is over simplified, and not true to the actual mechanics but it helps demonstrate the concept of 'Goes ins' = 'Goes outs'
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Old 09-07-2011, 02:07 AM   #140
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Very informative, thank you for the post. I'm new here, but have been brewing for about 18 years. I just rebuilt my basement and have a dedicated little room with a floor drain, stainless sink with sprayer, insulated fermentation box, 220V and gas line (as yet unused). I am very interested in building an automated system. I have the converted kegs and use those as mash tun, boil kettle/HLT with my turkey burners, just don't have to do it out in the garage any more. Just brewed an Oktoberfest ale and an American Amber with a twist - used San Francisco steamer yeast and fermenting at 70F instead of its usual lagering temp, ~45...but I digress.

I have an electrical engineering background and love to tinker (though not very mechanically inclined), so can't wait to tap the huge talent pool here and do some serious-ass brewing. If I can share some of my knowledge too, that'd be fun.

Jeff, SLC, UT

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