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Old 01-12-2013, 04:47 AM   #31
whoaru99
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I don't think there is any problem with them from a voltage perspective. The problem, IMO, is current. Look at the beef in a 50A range plug and receptacle then look at a Switchcraft version of speakON also apparently rated rated 50A. Either someone is sandbagging or someone is stretching things.

In pro audio a common speaker load is 4 ohms. Any idea how much power there is if you had 50A into a 4 ohm load? That's 10,000 watts. There are a few, but not many 10kW audio power amps. Thing is though, with actual music, an audio power amp rated 10kW will only be putting out about 1250 watts on average/continuous if it was running right up to the verge of clipping. 1250W at 4 ohms is 18 amps. 18 amps I can buy based on the size of the plug and contacts.

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Old 01-12-2013, 02:47 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by biertourist View Post
Smittygouv,

Don't be discouraged; I'm already doing exactly what you're doing (Switch Craft connectors for everything); with 10/4 wire between the spa panel and the control panel and 10/3 to the elements you should be fine. -I doubt that they'll come off -the pressure is actually holding the spade connectors on; when they bend could two of the spades actually touch? -I definitely think it's possible, hence shrink wrap or liquid electrical tape; now that i think about it I'll have to actually disconnect every single spade connector to even liquid tape them so I might as well just shrink wrap them....

The liquid electrical tape is sold at any of the big box home stores in the electrical section and is in a jar that looks like rubber cement; it's goes on as a liquid with a brush that's attached to the lid and is non-conductive when it dries so you just sort of "paint" this goop around whatever it is your trying to insulate. I guess for this application shrink wrap might be better. (Definitely less messy)

Adam
Adam
Hey Adam,

Thanks for the reply. I too will be disconnecting every spade connector and using both solder and shrink tubing just to be safe. I don't feel as uncomfortable with the spade terminals on the male end of the plugs, as the 10/4 wire and the compression adapter is REALLY tight. I can't imagine those terminals moving at all let alone having enough wiggle room to pull out far enough and touch another. Now, the female end is a completely different story (as seen in the picture I posted). I even tried to aggressively crimp them on so they wouldn't move but still they can wiggle up and down pretty freely. Like I said they pass the "light tug test" but I still feel some vibrations would be enough to set one of them free and all hell would break lose. Those screw on ends like neutrik would be fantastic and make life much nicer.


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Old 01-14-2013, 06:24 PM   #33
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So I decided to email Neutrik and see if they would enlighten me the the actual difference between the SpeakON connectors and the PowerCON connectors. And as to why the the SpeakON should not be used as AC mains.

Here is what I got back

"speakON has never been UL recognized for power applications. (Indeed, we have never submitted speakON for power, since we have powerCON.) Any applications that use speakON for power could never be U.L. listed.

One other note about powerCON TRUE1’s rating of 20A in the U.S. and only 16A in Europe. Yes, this is confusing! The difference arises from the fact that there is no 20A certification standard in Europe. In Europe, a power connector can be certified to 16A or to higher amperages (like 32A) which powerCON TRUE1 does not support. By contrast, UL does have a 20A certification standard. That’s why powerCON TRUE1 can be legally certified to 20A in the U.S. but only 16A in the rest of the world."
Interesting that it's not that speakON was deemed unusable, but rather that it was never submitted. With the reasoning being that they have other products to fill the need.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:16 PM   #34
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:16 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by tyfernandez View Post
So I decided to email Neutrik and see if they would enlighten me the the actual difference between the SpeakON connectors and the PowerCON connectors. And as to why the the SpeakON should not be used as AC mains.

Here is what I got back
"speakON has never been UL recognized for power applications. (Indeed, we have never submitted speakON for power, since we have powerCON.) Any applications that use speakON for power could never be U.L. listed.

One other note about powerCON TRUE1’s rating of 20A in the U.S. and only 16A in Europe. Yes, this is confusing! The difference arises from the fact that there is no 20A certification standard in Europe. In Europe, a power connector can be certified to 16A or to higher amperages (like 32A) which powerCON TRUE1 does not support. By contrast, UL does have a 20A certification standard. That’s why powerCON TRUE1 can be legally certified to 20A in the U.S. but only 16A in the rest of the world."
Interesting that it's not that speakON was deemed unusable, but rather that it was never submitted. With the reasoning being that they have other products to fill the need.
They had speakON way before powerCON afaik. If speakON was suitable why would they develop another product?

Maybe someone with a strong NEC background will chime it but I thought there were code provisions that dictate plugs and receptacles need to have differences based on current ratings etc. so that things aren't inadvertently connected together that shouldn't be.

It could be a pretty big deal to mix up your speaker connections and AC mains connections. I'd say that's one good reason (beyond what may be UL or NEC technicalities) why they came up with powerCON.
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Old 01-14-2013, 07:59 PM   #36
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I can only imagine that the marketing department might have been behind the decision to develop powerCON. Why give a current product a new use by getting it UL certified when you can make a "new" product that is basically the same thing. I don't think this is 100% the case with Neutrik, as they did make some good changes from speakON to powerCON, but I have to imagine it influenced the decision to create powerCON.

I would love to hear someone with some good knowledge on the topic weigh in as well.

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Old 01-14-2013, 09:01 PM   #37
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I've been in the pro audio business for about 20 years. I can remember when the Neutrik SpeakOn connectors started to become really popular. There is a 4 pole connector (NL4FC or NL4FX) and an 8 pole version (NL8). They were much cheaper than the other standard at the time, the EP/AP connector. The EP/AP connectors had a higher current rating and were usually made of metal bodies and would cost about $15-20 per connector. Once the speakon connectors came out, much like the home brewing community seems to have, a lot of audio guys figured out that they could use SpeakOn as a low cost AC mains connector. Problem was that it isn't UL listed for AC usage and people could also plug a 8 Ohm speaker cabinet into 120VAC receptacle usually resulting in bad things. Thus Neutrik saw the application and responded with the Powercon. The reason they never would've submitted the SpeakOn for UL listing as an AC connector is simple...its a loudspeaker connector.

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Old 01-14-2013, 10:33 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyfernandez View Post
I can only imagine that the marketing department might have been behind the decision to develop powerCON. Why give a current product a new use by getting it UL certified when you can make a "new" product that is basically the same thing. I don't think this is 100% the case with Neutrik, as they did make some good changes from speakON to powerCON, but I have to imagine it influenced the decision to create powerCON.

I would love to hear someone with some good knowledge on the topic weigh in as well.
It's not a big marketing ploy. It's a basic matter of not using the same connector for two completely different and non-interchangeable applications.
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