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Ohio-Ed 01-05-2010 02:11 AM

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Originally Posted by CodeRage View Post
Well you could drop the 5500W to 4500W and you'll be right at 50. Not what I would recommend though.

You could configure the 5500W elements so that they can run on 110 or 240v. So if you just need one to maintain heat while the other one needs to be full tilt then that may work. a 5500W element on 110 will only use 1375W, dropping your load consumption.

Doing the math, 2 5500W elements is going to put you at 46Amps which is a little close for comfort for a 50 Amp load. put a 60 Amp breaker in there and add the 1500W 120v element puts you at 58 amps, way too close if you ask me, you'll be dealing with nuisance trips eventually.

I think you really need to do another power survey and see where you can cut back some.
If you don't mind, please take a look at the attached file. This is a work in process so I still have more work do do on it, but thought you might see something in the early stages that will keep me on the right track.

I've had a heck of a time finding a tool that I can use and then manage to post it on HBT. Attached is a zip file containing a pdf of a visio... wow, I need to figure out a better way.

Some notes about what I have so far...

1) This is just the power side.. I'm still debating control (PIDs, Brewtroller, or BCS460).
2) The selector switches should be 3 position, I just couldn't find a symbol.
3.) I'm thinking I should replace the switches with relays, but I don't know parts, sources, etc.
4.) I bought a 50amp GFCI to put in the panel and plan to have a receptacle fairly close. The rig will need to be portable, so I'm thinking I need 10-20' of cord on the rig.

This is open for suggestions, input, comments. I'm also hoping to get some input on sourcing.


Ohio-Ed 01-08-2010 07:13 PM

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Originally Posted by CodeRage View Post
Yeah, an SSR needs a load to appear off.

I would strongly advise that you use a two poll contactor with an E Stop. You could also put a system on/off latch circuit in there too.
I reworked the drawing based on switching control instead of current. I also made it a bit more like a ladder diagram.

I still have details to add... (E-Stop, Indicators, etc) but wanted to know what you think so far? I know it may not be complete, but do you see anything wrong?

Thanks for your help so far,

Ohio-Ed 01-12-2010 03:48 AM

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Updated drawing...

I could still use some help with the E-Stop.

CodeRage - I looked at the circuit in the PDF in your Electrical Primer thread but can't say I follow.

Anyone see any problems with this before I start sourcing parts?


Ohio-Ed 01-13-2010 08:15 PM

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Originally Posted by CodeRage View Post
I'd say it was a late meeting.

Lol, if you haven't noticed Im a bit of a night owl. Usually the only time I get to brew is once the rug rat is in bed. We moved him from his crib to his toddler bed around Christmas. I think I have cut a groove in the hardwood floors from having to get up and bust him sneaking out of bed every 30 seconds. So I got a later start than usual, and I was in one of those come hell or high water moods. The new CFC saved me a ton of time though. Fermenter was full at 1:05 and the brewery was soaking in hot PBW 20 minutes later. It's going to be a DRY pale ale, spent a lot of time in the 140s. It is what it is.

Yeah, you got the control wiring right in the last drawing, parallel. If you wire them in series you start dividing the voltage up, so for 2 SSRs it would look like 2.5V at each coil.

Something I would like to add. Though it was sticking like mofo, the 4500W RIMs heater was nice! Pol, you're going to be happy. If you plan on doing any step mashes you may want to make provisions for a 240v element there. 1500W will do you just fine maintaining a single mash temp.
It wasn't a work related meeting so I can deal with it.

I did notice you seem to be on late... I just never thought about brewing that late. Started a brew after work (about 5pm) one time and that was enough. The brewing wasn't so bad, but the cleanup was like torture.

I updated the attached drawing to reflect the BCS power supply (nice catch, thanks). I also put in components for the e-stop but I have to say, I don't think it is right, and I really am having trouble getting my head around it.

I'm hoping it will be easier to wire than for me to draw?

My thoughts on the 1500watt rims heater;
The new rig is going to have a 50amp plug, therefore not very portable. Right now, I brew off site quite a bit. While I can't take the new rig with me... I'm thinking I could take the RIM's heater and continue to use my current PID setup for portablity. The elements in the HLT & BK are removeable so I can heat with propane if needed. I'd like to make sure I can still brew with a 15amp receptacle.


Ohio-Ed 01-14-2010 06:43 PM

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I'm pretty sure that I'm stupid.
I "think", maybe with any luck, I finally have the E-Stop figured out. I had to draw boxes around the "components" so I could try to understand the pieces involved.

I read you description a dozen times and looked all over the net for examples, but until I drew it and followed it, it really didn't sink in. With any luck I have the logic and the components right.

Please take a look and see if I have the attached drawing correct.

I know it's not a proper ladder diagram, but hopefully you can follow my twisted logic.



CodeRage 01-19-2010 09:05 PM

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I happen to have a picture of retrofit job we did a while ago that has a illuminated run button and E-Stop.

Ohio-Ed 01-20-2010 07:15 PM

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OK, Here is the latest version of the drawing which includes LEDs for the 3-Position Selector switches. As drawn, the LEDs will light when power is applied to the Element or Pump regardless of weather in Hand or Auto mode.

I had to change some of the symbols to reduce the file size... the forum will only allow a 19.5kb PDF file! This is currently 19.3.

Let me know if you see anything of concern... I'm sourcing components now so there is still time to make design changes if needed.


Ohio-Ed 01-22-2010 02:43 PM

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Originally Posted by CodeRage View Post
I was going from memory and thought it was on L1 and when I saw L2 I thought you were talking as if it was driven between L1 and L2. My mistake.

So I think your question is what kind of fuse protection is needed for that circuit?

Now that you brought it up.
Well, if the relay contact is only 5 amps then I would tap off of L2, through a 2 amp fuse (slow blow) and into a control power distribution block. Then use the control power distribution block to power the E-stop circuit and the Coil circuit for C1.

Sorry Ed, you may want to consider this too. With the parts you have you could replace F1 with a 1.5 or 2A SB and tap off of there instead of L2.

I can't get to the file hosting sites right now. I will try to set one up later.
I "clipped" the top of the drawing and attached it to this message.

CodeRage, If I read the last statement in your message above correctly (regarding F1), then the BCS would have power even if the e-stop was pressed... is that correct?

I was back and forth in my original thoughts about having the e-stop kill power to the BCS... what are your thoughts?


Ohio-Ed 01-29-2010 06:27 PM

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First panel layout, what do you think?

The box is a slant top 16" x 16".

Basically, the box is about 2" high in the front and about 11" high in the back.
The heat sinks will be on the back.
Probe connectors will be on the back, below heat sinks.
220 supply will come in from the bottom (back right corner).
Twistlocs for the elements will be on the bottom (in the back)
Outlets for Pumps will be on the bottom (in the back)
Network jack will be on the left side toward the front.


CodeRage 01-30-2010 03:07 AM

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Well, you could group the pumps by where they draw from. Pump 1 will always draw from the HLT while pump 2 can draw from either the MLT or BK. I swapped the stop start buttons around and put some more space between them. So you don't accidentally bump the e-stop or the start button when trying to press one or the other.

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