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Old 09-07-2012, 04:07 PM   #51
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2) Pull in a ground wire from the main panel, move the spa GFI there, hook everything up according to the diagram with my new 4-wire 240 volt circuit.
This is what my electrician and I are working on. I'll get some photos in here once we're done.
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“Get your beer off the yeast cake on day 7 or your beer will crawl out of the fermenter and eat your youngest child”

“Your beer will be the equivalent of rhinoceros urine unless it sits on the primary yeast cake for at least 4 weeks.”
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Old 09-07-2012, 04:08 PM   #52
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Good call!

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What does the primary pressure gauge on the tank tell us? That's right, the temperature. Put it on a scale if you want to know how much is in it...
Put some duct tape over the gauge - Or better yet - Replace the high pressure gauge with a plug - High pressure gauges are useless!
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:18 PM   #53
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Well apparently you are not aware of the way clothes dryers and electric ranges were set up pre 2002 code changes. Or for that matter how a power feed is delivered to a barn and then setup for 240-120V power.
In trying to be a peacemaker, I'm wondering if both of your are right if viewed from different angles.

I don't know the NEC code, but I was trying to understand how the idea of creating a 4-wire circuit from a Spa Panel that's connected to a 3-wire Dryer outlet would be grounded. Somewhere in the Electrical Primer I read how appliances such as dryers and ranges got away with a 3-wire plug because the appliance is the ONLY thing on the circuit.

In the case of the 4 wire spa panel being "derived" from the 3 wire dryer receptacle, I'm wondering if the "purpose" of this is more to provide "protection" in lieu of a "true" ground.

In the case of this single appliance, the brew rig, that, like a dryer or range, contains both 220V and 110V circuits . . . if something happens that causes current to flow into the green wire in the rig, the GFCI inside the spa panel will detect this within the required amount of time and, as a result, trip the circuit. Even though the green wire between the e-control panel and spa panel isn't a "true" ground, it performs enough of the "function" of a ground wire to trip the circuit should current find its way to ground.

I still may be confused, but in my non-electrician understanding, it appears that grandequeso might be correct in the "strict" sense in that a ground that terminates onto the neutral away from the main panel is not truly a ground according to the Code, yet P.J. is correct in the "functional" sense in that this pseudo-ground wire will serve the purpose of giving the GFCI within the spa panel something to monitor such that if something abnormal happens to shunt current into the ground wire, it will sense it, trip, and thereby protect the brewer.

BTW, another question just hit me: if the spa panel is connected into the 3-wire dryer circuit and mounted outside the house AND you run a wire from the grounding lug inside the spa panel to a piece of pipe stuck into the ground, would you be "truly" grounded?

Respectfully submitted,
Keith
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Old 09-07-2012, 09:37 PM   #54
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in regards to the pipe ground, yes that would work, not if the pipe was stuck in the ground, but yes, if it was a water pipe that was connected to the service ground. Sticking a pipe in the ground wouldn't do jack. The code allows that as a means of obtaining a equiptment ground in a existing structure that does not have a ground available. I really don't see the debate NEC 406.3 (3)c is pretty specific about using gfci on ungrounded circuits where it says "shall be marked no equiptment ground" and "... an equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected" These aren't my opinions, its all in the code book. Any electrical advice I give anyone I can back up with NEC reference as to why or why not it is a good idea. I'm paid quite well to know the electrical code. I'd just feel terrible if some poor bastard hurt himself because he took bad info from the internet. I think the fellas on the mike holt electrical forum would get weeks worth of laughts out of some of the things you see folks telling other folks to do on hbt. All that banter aside anyone in question about anything electrical please contact a qualified preferably licensed electrician.

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Old 09-07-2012, 10:21 PM   #55
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Is the NEC referring to a plug in device though? I thought the NEC was talking about hard wired devices. Maybe I'm wrong.

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Old 09-07-2012, 10:41 PM   #56
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The nec 406.3(3)c that talks about gfci is in reference to ungrounded receptacles, but the theory behind gfci protection is the same.

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Old 09-12-2012, 05:29 AM   #57
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Ok so, my licensed electrician will be adding a 4 prong receptacle to my backyard. He put together this part list:

electrical-part-list.jpg

He quoted me $275 for all the parts. Does this sound reasonable? Or do you guys think i can source these parts cheaper online? If so, where?

Thanks!

-Alex

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Cacaman cheap keezer build!

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Originally Posted by BierMuncher View Post

“Get your beer off the yeast cake on day 7 or your beer will crawl out of the fermenter and eat your youngest child”

“Your beer will be the equivalent of rhinoceros urine unless it sits on the primary yeast cake for at least 4 weeks.”
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Old 09-12-2012, 10:39 AM   #58
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Sounds really decent, that 25' of 10/4 sjo cord isn't cheap. plus a gfci breaker isn't cheap either. along with that its only fair that he marks it up a bit as he has to go out & purchase the stuff and will likely be giving you a warrantee on these items as well. heck at $275 he may not even be marking it up much if at all

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Old 09-12-2012, 07:34 PM   #59
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Sounds really decent, that 25' of 10/4 sjo cord isn't cheap. plus a gfci breaker isn't cheap either. along with that its only fair that he marks it up a bit as he has to go out & purchase the stuff and will likely be giving you a warrantee on these items as well. heck at $275 he may not even be marking it up much if at all
Of course that doesn't include his labor as well... Just FYI
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Cacaman cheap keezer build!

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“Get your beer off the yeast cake on day 7 or your beer will crawl out of the fermenter and eat your youngest child”

“Your beer will be the equivalent of rhinoceros urine unless it sits on the primary yeast cake for at least 4 weeks.”
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Old 09-13-2012, 12:35 AM   #60
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New additions to the brewery! Will cut holes in them and polish soon.



image-1675256436.jpg



image-3146934360.jpg

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Cacaman cheap keezer build!

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Originally Posted by BierMuncher View Post

“Get your beer off the yeast cake on day 7 or your beer will crawl out of the fermenter and eat your youngest child”

“Your beer will be the equivalent of rhinoceros urine unless it sits on the primary yeast cake for at least 4 weeks.”
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