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Old 11-25-2010, 03:05 AM   #1
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Default Electric diagram w/ RIMS

I am in the process of making a RIMS based system with another element in the boil kettle to help with the boil. I will be using 120v until I get access someday to 240v. The RIMS element will be 1500w and the kettle element will be 2000w. I've researched electrical diagrams and have based mine off many of them. Can you guys give me some feedback on the diagram?

Two things I'm wondering about are:

Is the one hot leg coming off the RIMS contactor correct to connect to the 120v hot source?

Is the neutral leg going into the kettle element contactor correct? Can I switch both the hot and neutral leg through the contactor to switch the outlet?

edit...oops just noticed I forgot the power for the PID. Just pretend its there and I'll fix it in v.2

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Old 11-25-2010, 07:44 PM   #2
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While I *think* your proposed schematic would work, it's definitely not the standard way of connecting components. I would change it so that the DPST relay on your RIMS element controls both the hot leg and neutral of that branch. Move your SSR to be wired in series with the relay on the hot leg. Just make sure that you break power off to the PID before either of the two contactors. Also, you should provide some circuit protection to the PID and the selector switch. You could include a 500mA fast blow fuse coming off of your power bus on the hot leg, after you have broken off the runs to the elements. This is just a start, but should give you something to think about for the next rendition.

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Old 11-26-2010, 01:52 AM   #3
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Are you saying something like this? Could I get rid of the one leg that goes nowhere from the PID to the SSR?




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Old 11-26-2010, 03:36 AM   #4
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I think you'r misunderstanding how the SSR works. Basically, the PID gives the SSR a low DC voltage "signal." The SSR uses this to open the gate, allowing current to flow through the AC side of the SSR. You need to move the SSR to fit between the electromechanical contactor and the RIMS tube, with the two AC contacts on the SSR both connected to the hot leg. The SSR is a switch that is controlled by the PID.

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Old 11-26-2010, 01:15 PM   #5
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On Kal's website, The Electric Brewery, he has the SSR before the contactor.
http://www.theelectricbrewery.com/co...part-2?page=13
That's why I did that. I was basing my diagram mainly off of the heating elements part of the site, only with RIMS and one heating element for the boil kettle.

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Old 11-26-2010, 04:33 PM   #6
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The way I'm thinking it will work is turn on my pump for the RIMS, PID senses temperature is too low and sends signal to the SSR, SSR sends its signal to the contactor, if the 3 way is set for the RIMS then the SSR power will flow through the contactor to the RIMS element. Is this correct?

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Old 11-26-2010, 07:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snail View Post
The way I'm thinking it will work is turn on my pump for the RIMS, PID senses temperature is too low and sends signal to the SSR, SSR sends its signal to the contactor, if the 3 way is set for the RIMS then the SSR power will flow through the contactor to the RIMS element. Is this correct?
In Kal's and many other builds, the reason for the SSR is to allow the PID to control power to the heating element. The SSR is built for this high frequency switching. The electromechanical contactor, on the other hand, is not. The reason for their inclusion is to allow the user to kill power to the element independent of the SSR/PID. Now, because both the contactor and the SSR are switches that are meant to energize or kill the circuit, they should be wired in series. This way your PID can tell the SSR all day long to send power to your element, but it won't get any unless you have the 3-way switch providing power to the contactor's coil.

Now, since you're only using the contactor are a switch, you might wonder why it's necessary. Why not just put a on/off switch in the hot legs of the element circuits? The reason for this is safety. In Kal's build, like many others, he is using 240V at >20A. Switches for these voltages/currents are expensive. Also, the coil on that contactor uses 120V <0.5A so this means that the switch that ultimately powers on the high current elements actually has a lot less power running through it than your average lamp. By isolating the switch from the hot leg, it also allows a small fuse or breaker on the switch circuit, providing another layer of protection to both the user and the componentry.

Back to your build - it really doesn't matter whether the SSR or the contactor is closer to the element. What does matter is that the SSR should be wired in series on the hot leg of the power circuit, and the contactor (since you went with DPST) should have the hot leg wired through T1 to L1 and the neutral leg through T2 to L2. Then include your switch across the coil terminals, and add a 250mA fuse in series BEFORE the switch.
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Old 11-26-2010, 08:11 PM   #8
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Quote:
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Back to your build - it really doesn't matter whether the SSR or the contactor is closer to the element. What does matter is that the SSR should be wired in series on the hot leg of the power circuit, and the contactor (since you went with DPST) should have the hot leg wired through T1 to L1 and the neutral leg through T2 to L2. Then include your switch across the coil terminals, and add a 250mA fuse in series BEFORE the switch.
Trigger thanks for the help so far. Would you be able to show me how to do this on my diagram? This is the only part I'm not really sure on how to wire. I'd really appreciate it.
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Old 11-26-2010, 09:26 PM   #9
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First, the disclaimer: I am NOT an electrical engineer or an electrician, just a physics/biochemistry double B.S. Therefore, you should consult someone who can properly analyze this circuit before proceeding with any actual implementation. Also, I am posting this as an example. It is imperative that you understand WHY this circuit would work before you build it. Kal has a great description on the page that you linked as to why both the electromechanical relay and the SSR are necessary.

Please read this entire thread, as there is a lot of very good information in there, and the back and forth between Tiber Brew and P J is very transparent.

Here is a great run-through of switches and wiring them. In fact, read the entire thread. It's not going to apply exactly, since Ohio-Ed went with a BCS and 220V elements, but there's a lot of good knowledge to be gleaned that will apply to your build.

You haven't included GFCI protection. Are you plugging this in to a GFCI outlet? That needs to be figured out.

Finally, look up e-stop circuits. I believe that they should be included on every build. It's basically an OH-SH!T button that kills EVERYTHING. Kind of like a motorcycle helmet. You hope you never need it, but when something goes wrong you slap the biggest reddest thing around and the electricity is cut.

With that said, here's what I'm proposing:

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Old 11-26-2010, 10:47 PM   #10
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ohhhhhhhh, I see now. I waaaassss misunderstanding how the SSR worked. Sorry if these are elementary questions but, does it matter if the T1 on the SSR was connected to the hot supply and the L1 connected to the mechanical relay? Opposite the way it is now.

I do already have GFI protection via the outlet I'm plugging the main power into.

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