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Old 12-28-2012, 08:34 PM   #1
ssimkins
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Default Electric Brewery Build with Coolers.

Hey Guys,

I am in the process of building an ebrew system using two, 10 gallon Depot coolers and an 11 gallon SS BK. I will be installing a 30amp GFCI breaker to my panel and running a 10-3 line to a 30 amp (125/250V) 4 wire turn lock outlet (smaller than dryer outlet).
I will be building a control panel using one that PJ designed on another thread that seams to be dead. The panel will be running two 5500w elements. One will be in the HLT and the other will be in the BK. The plan is designed to use only one PID and to operate only one element at a time.
I will be using one pump and one motor to mix HLT water both will be connected to the panel.
THe HLT will have a copper heat exchanger coil that will recirculate to maintain mash temps.
For chilling, I will be building whirlpool immersion chiller.

If anybody has any suggestions or see any problems in my thoughts or direction, I would really appreciate!

Thanks!

Sean

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Old 12-28-2012, 11:19 PM   #2
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Sean,

I think you chose a really good plan for your setup.

Please let me know if I can help and advise you in your adventure.

P-J

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Old 12-29-2012, 11:28 PM   #3
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Thanks P.J.!


[Updated]

Here is my planned parts lists so far:


From ebrewsupply:
(1) Three way, 2 NO contact switch
(2) Two way, 1 NO Contact switch
(3) Blue LED push button 2-way switch
(2) Yellow 220V 22m LED
(1) Mushroom Button, NO ( I think I want normally open anyways.) contact
(1) Flashing buzzer
(2) XLR Female plug
(2) XLR Chassis mount male jack
(1) 1/2 Meter DIN rail.
(1) 25 amp 2 pole breaker
(1) 16 amp single pole breaker.

Also thinking of adding a keyed 2-way 1 NO Contact, switch. Not sure what people think of these but I was thinking it might be good to lock it up for the kiddos.

From Auber:

(1) Large Controller Enclosure
(1) SYL- 2352 PID
(2) Liquid tight K type, 4 in probe, 1/2 NPT Thread
(1) 40amp SSR
(1) External Mount Heat Sink for 60A SSR (Not sure if there is a cheaper and better way to go for this.)
(2) Contactor, 2 pole, 30A, 120V Coil

From Amazon:

(2) Camco 02963 5500w 240v screw in water heater lime life ripple element - ultra low wat density.
(Many) Terminal connectors.
(Many) Self adhesive tie mounts.
(Many) Zip ties.

From Mouser

(4) Switchcraft Male 502-HPCC4F (One each for the elements, pump, and stir motor.)
(4) Switchcraft Female receptacles 502-HPCP41F1
(4) Terminal Block Interface Module DIN mountable
I think that should be close to everything. I just want to make sure I have all of the right stuff.

From StayOnline:

(25ft) THHN 14 awg stranded 105c*600 volt wire (Black)
(25ft) THNN 10 awg stranded 105c*600 volt wire (Orange)


Thanks!!

Sean

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Old 12-31-2012, 02:29 PM   #4
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Hey guys, I am planning to pull the trigger on my list and just want to be absolutely sure that I am getting compatible and correct components. Would someone be able to give me the thumbs up on this list. Thanks and happy New Years everyone!

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Old 12-31-2012, 04:59 PM   #5
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Hey Sean,

I am in the process of building something almost identical. The only difference is that i'm going to use 2 PIDs and a timer instead of 1 PID. How do you plan to mount the element in the cooler. I'm torn if I should go through the bottom of the cooler or the side.

Have you looked into the different temperature probes from Auberin? I'm going to go with the RTD PT100-L50NPT with delux cable. It's more pricey but it can be threaded into a 1/2" tee and the delux cable comes with a mount for the control panel. I'm not sure if this set-up will work for you as mine will be mounted on the ball valve of the HLT and monitor the water there as it is recirculated by a pump, not a motorized stirrer.

Also I've decided use switch craft receptacles and plugs instead of the flanged outlet/receptacle. This will save a bit of money and will the cord to the element to unplugged from both ends. Below are a few links. This was not my idea but recommended as an alternative by another member who's name I can't recall now. If you search switch craft it might up.

Switch craft plug 502-hpcc4f http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...jgsNwp9BDEFdAh

Switchcraft cord rect 502-hpcp41f1
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...oDMfjzVhvpQ%3d

I have ordered both my SSR and heat sink from ebrewsupply. The SSR is rated for 40amp and has definitely been used with success for the 5500 watt elements. I'm not sure if this is a better choice than the one you mentioned from amazon.

The only other things I added to my order were terminal ends and self adhesive tie mounts from amazon, a DIN rail and mountable breakers single and double pole from ebrew supply, and mountable distribution blocks from mouser. These specific ones look very convenient and were recommended by Kevin. http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/...LGfyDUOU3oHpiE

Your coolers look beautiful by the way and I look forward to the finished product.

Corey

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Old 12-31-2012, 05:05 PM   #6
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I have no experience with using an electric element in a plastic cooler... if the plastic holds up, you need to make sure you ground the cooler (water) some how, otherwise you could have a very bad day.

If you're pumping your wort through the HEX, then why not put a short temperature probe in a Tee right off the outlet from the MLT? Then you would be measuring the actual temperature of the wort as it leaves the mash tun, and could adjust the HLT from there.

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5gal Scottish Wee Heavy
5gal Saison
15gal American Pale Ale
20gal Belgian Wit
10gal Oktoberfest
10gal Southern Pecan Ale

Keg 1: Apfelwein
Keg 2: Belgian Wit
Keg 3: American Pale Ale
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:39 AM   #7
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Great advice guys!
Is there a reason to use two PID's over just one? I thought that you would need two just incase you wanted to do back to back batches. I was thinking that since I am only using a 30amp breaker that it would probably be best to only use one element at a time. Also saving some money by only having to use one PID. I think the only thing that I will have to do is unplug the temp sensor for one and plug in the other?

As of right now, I was thinking of mounting the elements in the cooler through the sides. For only the reason that it would allow me to use more water. I was thinking that the higher the water needed to be to keep the element wet, that more likely it would be for me to burn the thing out. I considered a float switch but didnt want to add just another thing, so for now, side mounting.

As far as which kind of sensor, I really didn't know which one to get. Your idea of putting into a 2" tee is a great one, and BadnewsBrewery has also a good point on taking wort temps and adjusting HLT accordingly. I think that is probably the way to go.

Yes, I will be grounding the cooler. There are few examples of it out there, I just need to follow directions. Thanks for the reiteration of how important that is.

I will definitely be checking out those receptacles! Thanks for the heads up. Saving money anywhere would be great since these projects always cost more than anticipated! Haha!

Oh, and I need to add a heat sink also! Oops left that one out...

The SSR's at ebrewsupply are all sold out, so I was searching on Amazon and found that one. I wasnt sure if it would work though.

By adding the DIN rail and breakers, would I need to update the schematics or is it pretty self explanatory? Yes, terminal ends and tie mounts, I will add also!

Thanks! THis info is really helpful! I will update my list soon as it is time to start drinking some beer for the New Year!

Happy New Year Guys!

Cheers!

Sean

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Old 01-01-2013, 10:44 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssimkins View Post
Great advice guys!
Is there a reason to use two PID's over just one? I thought that you would need two just incase you wanted to do back to back batches. I was thinking that since I am only using a 30amp breaker that it would probably be best to only use one element at a time. Also saving some money by only having to use one PID. I think the only thing that I will have to do is unplug the temp sensor for one and plug in the other?
There is no real good reason for a second PID, and is certainly unnecessary. I am using the first PID to control the element in the HLT which is, from what I read, typically set 2 degrees higher than what you want the mash temperature to be. So the first PID will read what the temperature of the water is in the HLT, not the exact temperature of the Mash. My very curious mind wants to know the exact mash temperature is. So honestly i'm spending the extra money for the second PID to use as a glorified temperature readout as well as an alarm (when sparge temp has been reached).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssimkins View Post
As of right now, I was thinking of mounting the elements in the cooler through the sides. For only the reason that it would allow me to use more water. I was thinking that the higher the water needed to be to keep the element wet, that more likely it would be for me to burn the thing out. I considered a float switch but didnt want to add just another thing, so for now, side mounting.
I'm guessing you mean that going through the side will allow you to use less water. That is why I too want to go through the side. I've read that it can be tricky to mount this thing through the side of the cooler but it is seems worth the risk. Setting the element in the bottom of my cooler pointing upward it looked like the minimum amount of water required to cover the element would be about 8 gallons. Another note you should be aware of when mounting the camco ULWD 5500 throught the side is that it is a little too long. I was able to bend mine enough that it is now short enough to fit and as little as 2 gallons of water will keep it covered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssimkins View Post
As far as which kind of sensor, I really didn't know which one to get. Your idea of putting into a 2" tee is a great one, and BadnewsBrewery has also a good point on taking wort temps and adjusting HLT accordingly. I think that is probably the way to go.
Yea it seems like using a tee and a threaded RTD will be the easiest way. People have raved about the delux cable, its 11$ extra per probe, but I hear its worth that so I plan to add that. The bad news is that it makes the temp sensor as much as the PID!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssimkins View Post
I will definitely be checking out those receptacles! Thanks for the heads up. Saving money anywhere would be great since these projects always cost more than anticipated! Haha!
Cool, mine were ordered over the weekend and should be here Friday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssimkins View Post
The SSR's at ebrewsupply are all sold out, so I was searching on Amazon and found that one. I wasnt sure if it would work though.
I didn't realize they were sold out at ebrewsupply. My bad. I still haven't ordered my SSR and heatsink. That amazon one looks like it should work but I might just pay the extra and get it through auberin as well. I've heard that some of the ebay SSRs have short lives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssimkins View Post
By adding the DIN rail and breakers, would I need to update the schematics or is it pretty self explanatory? Yes, terminal ends and tie mounts, I will add also!
There is no need to update the schematics at all. The DIN rail will just make installation significantly easier and keep things organized. Just make sure whichever distribution ends/blocks you get are DIN mountable. It looks like a lot of people choose not to use the breakers but it seems like a good idea. These are also DIN mountable.

Good luck with those purchase orders. Give that credit card a workout! haha

Corey
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:50 PM   #9
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my only thought is if you are already putting a herms coil in the hlt why not throw ice in the hlt and use the herms coil as your chiller also?

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Old 01-01-2013, 10:51 PM   #10
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Here is an example of my wiring diagram with utilization of the second PID and the breakers. I have to attach it as a pdf as the JPEG version is terrible quality.

Corey

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