Electric BIAB setup - complete!

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Psych

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Location
Kelowna
At long last I've gotten to do a full session on my new single vessel BIAB electric setup, such a nice experience! So much less hauling stuff up and down the stairs, no having the take my pot outside to immersion chill by the outside hose, no banging my hands on my range hood when pulling the bag. Fantastic!

I'll edit this with a proper parts list once I compile it. I had some parts purchased that I never used, some parts that were defective, and a lot of help from fellow brewers here (PJ and Bobby_M, specifically), really appreciate your help guys!

The setup is a 4500watt low density element, 11 inches long, fit into a 44qt pot I picked up at Rona. I'm using an Auber 2362 PID, the 40amp SSR, a 30amp 240v coil, double pole normally open Auber contactor, and a 1/4NPT 2 inch Auber liquid tight RTD.

Here's a few pics:

My brewing area, laundry room style, using the 30amp dryer plug:
IMG_1892-e1309569741384.jpg



The toolbox o' electricity:
IMG_1893-e1309569909379.jpg



Inside the belly of the beast!
IMG_1894-e1309569975537.jpg


Autotuned the PID the other day and that got it so it only overshoots by a couple degrees. I can hold 7 gallons at a vigorous boil with the element at 75% or so. My ventilation could use some work now, using a fan propped on top of some of my spare buckets, a foot in front of the pot. That blows out the window and kept the humidity in the room below 65%. Good enough for now, might revisit that in the fall, though our house could use some extra humidity in the winter anyhow!

Today's brew, my 10th in total, was (what I'm calling) a Canadian Cream Ale, because it's Canada Day, eh! Was going for a Sleeman's Cream Ale clone but sort of strayed a bit, intentionally.

Wound up getting 80% efficiency, using my pasta roller grain crusher. Really happy with it all! Only hiccup I had today was I dropped one side of the bag when pulling it and wound up dropping a pile of organic puffed corn (couldn't find flaked) in the wort. Ack! Skimmed it all out, hurray for floating!

Thanks go out to PJ for the wiring diagrams and general electric questions! And to Bobby_M for hooking me up with my element locknut, 1/4NPT nut for the RTD and a stainless steel 1/2 inch ball valve with a copper dip tube. This stuff would have been near impossible to find here.

I'll leave this message for now with the recipe I did today, no sparge just pull and drain (squeeze a bit), mashout at 168 for 10mins:

Recipe: Canada Day Cream Ale
Brewer: Mike
Asst Brewer:
Style: Cream Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 6.30 gal
Boil Size: 7.85 gal
Estimated OG: 1.044 SG
Estimated Color: 5.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 14.0 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 80.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.50 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 57.89 %
2.00 lb Pilsner (2 Row) Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 21.05 %
0.75 lb Corn, Flaked (1.3 SRM) Grain 7.89 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 5.26 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 5.26 %
0.25 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 2.63 %
0.75 oz Hallertauer [4.80 %] (60 min) Hops 11.0 IBU
0.50 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops 3.0 IBU
1.00 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs SafBrew American Ale (DCL Yeast #S-05) Yeast-Ale
 
Nice! Congrats. That's a great setup. Nice laundry room btw. Wait til you see mine. It's ....well, rustic. I'm also looking forward to not having to run all around and up and down stairs. Can't wait!
 
Hehe, thanks, when we bought the house we were like "Oooo laundry room with a window facing the back lawn, yeah baby!".

It was pretty pleasant, and one thing that doesn't get mentioned much is the amount of heat a stove puts out, particularly when straddling two burners. Electric setup is SO much less waste heat...once I insulate the kettle: good times!
 
After searching and reading these forums for months, I think I finally found what I was looking for. Simplicity.

How does your brew day go? I assume you use your control panel to heat your water to temp and then mash in. Do you use the element to maintain your mash temp or do you turn it off and insulate?

Have you caught your grain bag on anything that's in the kettle (e.g. temp probe, dip tube, element, etc.)?

Do you have a GFCI in-line or part of the service panel? It looks like you did your element like Kal's and I think that's the way I'm headed too.

Also I'd be very interested to see your parts list when you get a chance to post.

Thanks for any help!
 
Please post the parts list when you have time. I have just started BIAB and I love it. I am now sooooooooooo ready to move to electric and say goodbye to propane forever!

Also, the wiring diagram would be nice if you have that available. I intend to mimic your exact build. :)

BTW...how about a pic of the inside of the kettle?

Thanks for the info!

John
 
Sure thing, I'll see what I can do about those pics and lists tonight :) I got lazy after building it and forgot to do all that stuff...

Brew day goes smooth, and leak free by the way. I brewed last night and from the very start to fully cleaned up and put away it was 4 hours 15 minutes.

I add all my water to the kettle, fire up the element once I confirm my water level is where I want it, then starting grinding my grain on my NEW BARLEY CRUSHER! hehe, first time using it last night, so awesome...but I digress.

So, water comes up to strike temp, my PID still overshoots a bit but whatever, knock it to manual mode once it's at temp, down to 0% use. Add my bag, add grain, stir stir stir until I'm at mash temp and stable, cover. I generally stir every 15-20 minutes now and re-check temps. I leave the element off (contactor off, just in case) all the mash, but if I'm getting low on temp I'll either just fire up the element at 70-100% for a minute or so, stirring all the while, or will raise the bag a bit (binder clamps on side to hold it higher) and fire the element up, stir stir stir until my temps are good again.

I tend to lose about 3-4 degrees per hour with this kettle when it's not 100% full, with a single layer of reflectix on the outside and a towel on the lid. So I generally will fire the element at least a minute or so in the middle of the batch.

I've never caught the grain bag on anything, no, it pulls smoothly. I'm using a single panel voile curtain, un hemmed and un sewn, just right from the package. The 2 inch RTD in the side of the kettle, the dip tube on the front and the element sticking out are no issue at all.

I'm using one of those in-line GFCI Xerox printer cords that Kal recommended, was able to score one for $70 Canadian, 30amp GFCI and 17 feet of cable. I plug into my dryer plug (swapping with the dryer).

Yeah I'll get some pics of the inside of the kettle today and get a rough parts list for this, the wiring diagram I used can be found in another thread though I never did add the e-stop circuit:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/w...d-ssr-single-kettle-setup-241686/#post2865132

Post 4 from PJ, of course :) Though technically I'm using a contactor instead of the final switch...so it's a bit different now.

The build has been amazing and I'm SO glad I did it, even if I wound up spending more on shipping items to Canada than on some of the key parts ;)
 
Much appreciated for the information. I doubt I'll ever be brewing more than 60-80 gallons a year and I'm unlikely to brew any real heavy brews - nothing heavier than an IPA. So currently my plan is to have a single vessel capable of 5-10 gallon batches with the drier outlet ( I think a 15 gallon should work). I have a utility sink and cold water supply in approximately the same location as the dryer outlet. Unfortunately the dryer outlet is a three-prong. I'm assuming that I can do the spa-panel instead of the in-line GFI extension cord without having to rewire the dryer outlet (I'm not an electrician or an EE, but I have access to one). Eventually, I think I'm going to add a single pump to the set-up to recirculate during mash and pump through a counterflow or plate chiller.
 
Yeah I would kill for a utility sink by my brewstand...or at least maim.

Definitely concur, a 15gallon pot would be good, I really can't do full boil 10 gallon batches even though mine claims to be a 13.5gallon pot...it's the small gallon, not the commonly used in brewing gallon, so really it's just an 11 gallon pot. Sigh.

Others have done the 3 prong outlet thing for electric brewing so there should be some resources here for just what you're suggesting, Fly_Rodder, yep!
 
This is an attempt at a parts list, and should only be used as a rough guide, not a shopping list by any means. This is what I wound up using, not what I bought and never used. Prices are in Canadian:

Power Box/Control Panel:

- 30amp 4-prong extension wire with inline GFCI (same as on Kal's site), bought on Ebay - $70
- Plastic toolbox from Canadian Tire, the main housing for the switches/pid/ssr/contactor and wiring - approx $6
- Tension relief wire clamp thing, 3/4 inch, bought pack of 4 for $4. This holds the gfci cable nicely into side of toolbox
- 5amp 120v SPST switch - this cuts power to hot leg between mains cable and my PID, lets me turn it on and off - $3
- Auber SYL-2362 PID - $40 (shipping of this item was $30 alone as I had a bad one initially sent to me, Auber did not cover shipping the new one or the return shipping)
- Auber 40amp SSR and 40amp heatsink - $40
- Auber CN-PBC402-240V 40amp 240v Contactor - $20 (shipping for initial order was also $30, so $60 in shipping alone...frack...)
- 2amp 120v indicator light, used to show element is on - $3
- 10 amp 240v DPST(?) toggle switch used to turn Contactor on and off, thereby turning element power on and off - $8
- 4 prong dryer outlet with steel plate for easy mounting (this is where I plug the element cord into on the toolbox, so I can easily seperate the kettle from toolbox for cleaning) - $5
- 4 feet of 3+1 10 gauge cable, used for misc primary load wiring inside toolbox - $5
- 4 feet of 2 wire, 20 gauge wire to run small load stuff inside toolbox - $3

Kettle:

- 4 prong 30 amp dryer extension cord (bare wires at one end connect to element, other end is a 4 prong connector that plugs the kettle into the toolbox dryer plug) - $10
- Stress relief 1/2 inch wire strain clamp thingy for above cable onto element housing - $5
- Single gang all metal electrical box with weatherproof front cover (this is mounted to back of kettle and element wiring is inside of it, with dryer cord feeding in from the side) - $8
- Element itself (4500watt 240v low density Home Hardware (not)special) - $25
- 1 inch NPS locknut and silicon oring, and 1/4 inch NPT locknut and orings, AND stainless steel ball valve with copper dip tube and oring - Brewhardware.com (BobbyM), $50 shipped
- Auber 2 inch liquid tight RTD - $30

Tools and misc:

- Exacto Knife (had this already but was invaluable in carving out the holes on the toolbox to mount stuff into) - $3
- 1 inch spade bit for starting holes in toolbox - $2
- 3/8 inch spade bit for smaller holes in toolbox - $2
- Stove screw and nut pack for mounting dryer plug, contactor and SSR onto toolbox walls - $4
- Lots of ring and spade wiring clamps because I suck at crimping - $10
- Wire stripper/crimper/cutter 3in1 tool - $9 (could have done without just using exacto knife and pliers)
- Analog multimeter - $29 (worth my peace of mind knowing I had everything grounded properly)
- Red marrets (wire cap/plug thingies), easy to use, cheaper than the terminal blocks, and safer imho - $4
- 7/8th inch bi-metal hole saw - $12
- Hole saw mandrel - $15
- whatever the hole saw size is for the 1/2 inch ball valve hole, can't remember now - $12
- Half inch drill bit and a starter bit to do the RTD hole, borrowed my dads but would cost maybe $3
- Borrowed dads drill press, but was definitely a HUGE help for this using hole saws, would have been messy without...

So to break it down as simply as possible:

Gray 30amp gfci cable is plugged into dryer outlet in my wall, this runs into side of toolbox and splits off (ignore my lousy wiring colors, I ran out of black and white halfway through so it's ad-lib...). I split the one hot line from there into three, one goes to the PID switch, which then goes to the PID. Another goes to the Contactor switch (the toggle switch) which then goes into it's own split, one to the indicator light and one to the contactor trigger pole. The final large gauge wire goes to the contactor itself.

The other hot line is split once. One goes straight to the other main pole of the contactor, the other to the other side of the contactor toggle switch which then goes down to the other trigger pole on the contactor.

The neutral is split twice, one goes directly to the PID (I run it off of 120v), the other goes to the only other 120v item in the kit, which is the indicator light.

The ground goes directly to the dryer plug output (so that my kettle can be grounded easily), there is no split here as nothing else in the mix requires grounding (PID, Contactor, SSR and switches are all shielded or so they say).

From the 2 output poles on the Contactor, come two 10 gauge hot lines that go to their corresponding terminals on the dryer plug, and therefore to the kettle.

Note that while I do have four pins on the dryer plug, and a four wire cable leading to the kettle, I do not attach the neutral wire to that at all, there's no need since the element doesn't require it.

Then it's just the simple stuff of the wire ends of the dryer extension cord that go to the kettle getting screwed onto the element screws and the ground wire going to the ground screw on the single gang box. This mates to the side of the kettle, and since there's always contact there by virtue of the locknut holding the element onto the kettle, and the ass end of the element sticking into the single-gang box, the kettle is always grounded.

Hope that helps...there's some spots I'd like to shore up, but so far I've done five brews and not a single issue. No leaks, no shorts, no smoke, the SSR heatsink is fine, everything is sweet.

If you have any specific questions, feel free to hit me up and I can maybe offer some comment from my own experience. This is the most complicated electrical thing I've ever done though so I'm definitely no expert! :)
 
I should throw the kettle price on there as well, I suppose, so 40qt aluminum stock kettle from Rona, $59. So roughly $560 before whatever applicable taxes, round up to 600 or so I suppose.

Definitely shy of the $2000 that some people swear is the minimum for an electric setup. If you lived in the states you could do this for under $500 easily as shipping costs were such a huge component. :)
 
I use a 25 foot 3/8 immersion chiller that I built...it's uuuugly, my bends were pretty bad. But it works well. For a 5g batch it takes maybe 10 minutes to go from 210F to 70F, and a 7-8G takes 15-20 minutes, maybe 25. Most of the time is at the 100F and below range.

Definitely room for improvement though, fitting a second tighter wound coil in the middle of the existing would be a good start.
 
The bag isn't in for long when the element is on, but being a low density element and the bag being....resistant? I don't know what it's made of, it's a sheer curtain, but it's never had any scorching.

I've actually touched my element when it's on full blast (at the start of the day, not during the boil or anything!) and it was warm but not crazy hot, I wrapped a piece of the bag material around it and left it for a bit, no effect.

If your element is low or ultra low density, I think it's fine for most bag types. Some, like cotton, they may suffer a bit maybe?
 
Totally, good luck! Be sure to post up when you have something rolling! Or if things catch fire lol...nahhhhh they won't catch fire ;)
 
Been looking at doing a similar setup except I think I'll use my pump to recirculate during the mash and use the PID to control the element during it as well. Anyways, I've been looking at ways to cut costs since I'm still a student (one that will be a teacher eventually so I figured I'd get used to cost cutting now) and I like you're toolbox setup and from a quick search they seem way cheaper and probably easier for me to cut than a metal project box. Can you use any old plastic toolbox like that for a control box or should I be looking for something specific?
 
Been looking at doing a similar setup except I think I'll use my pump to recirculate during the mash and use the PID to control the element during it as well. Anyways, I've been looking at ways to cut costs since I'm still a student (one that will be a teacher eventually so I figured I'd get used to cost cutting now) and I like you're toolbox setup and from a quick search they seem way cheaper and probably easier for me to cut than a metal project box. Can you use any old plastic toolbox like that for a control box or should I be looking for something specific?

Nah any toolbox works, I picked up the cheapest one I could find that had enough room in it for everything. The magic of the plastic case is it's non-conductive, it's super easy to put small screws into for mounting things, and heck it has a handle for picking up! :)

Most of my items are affixed to it by very small screws coming in the outside in, even for the items mounted on the inside. Means there's no pointy bits poking out. And all of the cutting I did with an exacto knife and a drill to start the holes. Worked like a champ!

I've since added a further 120v plug on the back side of it so I can plug my exhaust fan in, works great, safely mounted, sweet action.
 
Sweet! Thanks for the confirmation on the tool box. Yes, a nice fancy metal one with a pre-cut space for a specific PID would be nice but so would an extra $20 to spend on fittings or whatever else I need.
 
With the xerox cord which color wires go to what.

I have a Green/yellow= ground
Blue
Black
Brown

Not sure which goes to which?

I am thinking brown is neutral but want to be sure.

Thanks,
 
You're best off getting a cheap multimeter, it's really really important for building a safe setup. You can test for proper grounding and you can also test which wire leads to what prong on the plug, telling you what is what.

Off the top of my head I believe the BLUE is neutral, the black and brown are the two hot legs, and of course green is ground.

But yeah multimeter, $15 any cheapy will do, is your best friend :)
 
Those xerox cords are apparently not a safe gfci for human protection, but rather just equipment protection.
 
I thought I read they meet the standards in England or something, at whatever milliamps but the US/Canadian standards are half that. But heck, if it's safe enough for the Britts it's safe enough for me.

But again I'd be tempted to do it without GFCI next time, pain in the butt to get cords and GFCI breakers are hideously expensive in Canada. What could possibly go wrong.....
 
I thought I read they meet the standards in England or something, at whatever milliamps but the US/Canadian standards are half that. But heck, if it's safe enough for the Britts it's safe enough for me.

But again I'd be tempted to do it without GFCI next time, pain in the butt to get cords and GFCI breakers are hideously expensive in Canada. What could possibly go wrong.....
 
Most people just get the 60$ spa pool panel from the USA that has a GFCI already installed. I think your crazy to mess with running without gfci
 
That costs $250 or so in Canada, lousy border...

To be clear: I am not running without gfci...
 
I thought I read they meet the standards in England or something, at whatever milliamps but the US/Canadian standards are half that. But heck, if it's safe enough for the Britts it's safe enough for me.

But again I'd be tempted to do it without GFCI next time, pain in the butt to get cords and GFCI breakers are hideously expensive in Canada. What could possibly go wrong.....

Your dryer and stove run without GFI, so does your water heater if it's electric and all three mix water and electricity.
 
Hey psych, i really like this setup, this caught my eye months ago, and i was contemplating a 3 tier setup with 2 coolers and a pump to pump to the HLT. But now I'm looking at this again and I'm thinking this is the way to go. The only reason i don't already do biab is because 1) its hard to keep temp outside in the winter 2)well I guess there is no 2 its mostly about keeping mash temp thats why i use a cooler.
Plus sides to this are no more propane, no more having to brew outside i can setup a brew table in front of the window in the basement and have a window fan or something rigged up. now ill ust have to get approval from swmbo.
 
Hey psych, i really like this setup, this caught my eye months ago, and i was contemplating a 3 tier setup with 2 coolers and a pump to pump to the HLT. But now I'm looking at this again and I'm thinking this is the way to go. The only reason i don't already do biab is because 1) its hard to keep temp outside in the winter 2)well I guess there is no 2 its mostly about keeping mash temp thats why i use a cooler.
Plus sides to this are no more propane, no more having to brew outside i can setup a brew table in front of the window in the basement and have a window fan or something rigged up. now ill ust have to get approval from swmbo.

This setup has worked well for me since building two years back or whenever it was. No failures except when I didn't tighten down a maret properly right away it smoked. Has been reliable and consistent. The biggest pain in getting the holes in your pot for the element and getting the right parts shipped in. But looks like there's some places now that stock ALL of this stuff and may cross-border ship (electricbrewery.com or something similar?).

Brewing inside is amazing, especially in the winter, though I don't know the feeling of brewing outside...but yes, venting is very important :) An open window and a fan blowing across your kettle out said window is sufficient though.
 
Can you tell me what element from home hardware you used and what parts are needed for the element? Maybe snap a pic of your installed element?
The other thing is GFI. Damn gfi stuff is ridiculous here compared to the states, you would think the government is trying to kill us all by electrocution or something. I like your GFI cord. A GFI breaker for my panel is $299!!! and a spa panel is at leased $250
 
The ground fault stuff is just stupid expensive here. Who am I kidding. . . Everything is expensive here. Shipping from Auber is ridiculous. Blah.
 
I think it was this guy:

http://www.homehardware.ca/en/rec/i...att-Water-Heater-Element/_/N-ntja6/R-I3284751

But I found it really collected stuff on it, and it sort of bled off that chrome coating I think, so...not sure if I'd recommend it now. I upgraded to a Camco ripple 5500w element and am SUPER happy with it for more than a year now. Bought it off some dealer on Amazon.com that shipped to Canada, it was well worth it! Homehardware had to order it in so I had to wait for shipping anyways...

Yeah gfci...man...ridiculous. Happy to have been able to score that Xerox 240v gfci cable I got, for sure! Hopefully more come on the market...though again, I think I'd still chance it without gfci hah (note: Psych does not officially condone/recommend/otherwise suggest not using a GFCI in your setup!)
 
Did you just let your chiller sit on top of the element or do you fix it to something so it never touches? Thanks!

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Home Brew mobile app
 
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