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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Electric Brewing > Economical and correct receptacles-plugs for 240V 50A
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:44 PM   #11
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I should have explained that this was to the control box, not the keg, and a Neutral would be involved, (which is very close to ground unless high current is one only one leg)
The same situation can be applied to the control box. If a hot line come in contact with the panel (assuming it's a metal enclosure), it's the same thing as the keg on a wooden stand scenario. The metal box becomes live with potential and that potential has no where to go until something provides a path to ground.
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Old 03-01-2011, 08:57 PM   #12
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The same situation can be applied to the control box. If a hot line come in contact with the panel (assuming it's a metal enclosure), it's the same thing as the keg on a wooden stand scenario. The metal box becomes live with potential and that potential has no where to go until something provides a path to ground.
Nooooooo... the panel is connected to Neutral(ground potential, or very near) and BIG sparks would fly...
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:02 PM   #13
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Nooooooo... the panel is connected to Neutral(ground potential, or very near) and BIG sparks would fly...
Oh. You are bonding the panel's body to the neutral wire?

I didn't catch that part.

Yeah, sparks would definitely fly.

edit: that's not a good idea, is it? If the panel is bonded to neutral, then that means that any current flowing through a 120v circuit (pump) would be accessible by touching the panel.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:23 PM   #14
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Oh. You are bonding the panel's body to the neutral wire?

I didn't catch that part.

Yeah, sparks would definitely fly.

edit: that's not a good idea, is it? If the panel is bonded to neutral, then that means that any current flowing through a 120v circuit (pump) would be accessible by touching the panel.

Not only not a good idea, but also illegal. You can NOT use the neutral wire for a ground, or vice versa. Yes, they are ultimately connected to the same bus in the main panel, but it doesn't matter. If I did something like that, I would get fired.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:27 PM   #15
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Not only not a good idea, but also illegal. You can NOT use the neutral wire for a ground, or vice versa. Yes, they are ultimately connected to the same bus in the main panel, but it doesn't matter. If I did something like that, I would get fired.
Indeed. I am just trying to make sure I understand what's going on.

He said neutral was connected to the panel. I'm not sure if that means literally connected to the panel, or just feeding into and used within the panel.

The 'sparks' comment implies that it's connected to the panel directly, which is bad, but...

I'm not sure what he's got.
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:34 PM   #16
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with high loads of 120, no... probably not the greatest idea.. the neutral could go from 0 potential (with respect to ground) to max of a couple tenths or hundredths of volts... not dangerous.. (the only way that even a ground wire keeps ground potential is by not carrying current, the minute it carries current, it is slightly above ground potential)

lets figure out the actual potential
Voltage = Current X Resistance.. Volts = Amperes X Ohms

If I have 10 foot cord of 4Ga wire.. (0.2485ohms/1000 ft) so .002485ohms)

And 1A of single leg 120V current, the neutral (and the control box) would be at .002485 volts... even if I went to 10A, I am only at .025 volts.. I feel comfortable with that...

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Old 03-01-2011, 09:39 PM   #17
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Not only not a good idea, but also illegal. You can NOT use the neutral wire for a ground, or vice versa. Yes, they are ultimately connected to the same bus in the main panel, but it doesn't matter. If I did something like that, I would get fired.

not illegal... is there a ground from the pole to your service panel? No... just neutral... there is a ground rod near the service panel with relatively MUCH smaller wire than your service wiring, and it is connected DIRECTLY to the Neutral in the panel.. of every house in America... to make my panel legal, I think I would just have to run a small 8-10-12ga? wire to a house ground..

-mike
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Old 03-01-2011, 09:40 PM   #18
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I bought all my receptacles from this supplier. I needed 30A and 15A versions for Kal's control panel. They were by far the cheapest for the exact parts he used and they had great customer service. I'm not sure exactly what you are looking for but I searched for "50a" and a flush mount receptacle comes up for $7.99. (Nema-14-50R)
http://fruitridgesupply.com/search.htm?keyword=50a

I'm not sure why there aren't any pictures on the website as everything I ordered had pictures.

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Old 03-01-2011, 10:00 PM   #19
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not illegal... is there a ground from the pole to your service panel? No... just neutral... there is a ground rod near the service panel with relatively MUCH smaller wire than your service wiring, and it is connected DIRECTLY to the Neutral in the panel.. of every house in America... to make my panel legal, I think I would just have to run a small 8-10-12ga? wire to a house ground..

-mike

Wrong, wrong, wrong. You show me your electrician's certification, and quote me the code in the NEC, and THEN you can tell me my business. What you are going to do, if I am picturing it correctly, is indeed illegal. You can NOT use a neutral for a ground, or a ground for a neutral.
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Old 03-01-2011, 10:23 PM   #20
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I'm going to bow out of this thread now.

What you are doing isn't the safest thing in the world and is not legal under building code. Bernie (electrician) and me (electrical engineer) have both expressed out thoughts.

You have every right to ignore us and do whatever you want to do.

I'm going to go have a pint.

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