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clearwaterbrewer 03-01-2011 06:24 PM

Economical and correct receptacles-plugs for 240V 50A
 
I am thinking of putting in a service receptacle to feed a brew system controller with 2 4500W 240V elements running simultaneously, and also supplying small amount of 120Vac..

L6-30 is great (Yeah, I know, 30A), because it comes in a recessed receptacle form to do the power-in on brew controller, but only has three connectors.

I was thinking of the ones called 14-50 which are reasonable online, but downside is that they do not come in the recessed male version to place on controller box.. would probably hardwire 10' of 6 gauge if using this 14-50

or I could use any 3-prong that was fed by a GFCI, and therefore not really need grounding, correct? (I know this may sound scary to some, to not have a ground, but if a small current leaked to ground, with or without a ground wire, the GFCI would trip...)


thoughts?

Walker 03-01-2011 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clearwaterbrewer (Post 2693810)
or I could use any 3-prong that was fed by a GFCI, and therefore not really need grounding, correct? (I know this may sound scary to some, to not have a ground, but if a small current leaked to ground, with or without a ground wire, the GFCI would trip...)


thoughts?

You need a ground wire. Period.

If current leaks, but can't find a path to ground, then you potentially have metal items "charged up" and waiting to surprise you.

The ground wire needs to be present so that a current leak ABSOLUTELY has a path to ground and will pop the GFI.

Walker 03-01-2011 06:50 PM

check these out. I've never heard of "California Standard" but here are recessed male power inlets rated for 240v/50a:

http://www.stayonline.com/california-standard-50-amp-inlets.aspx

(not "economical" at $65 or so, but....)

Misplaced_Canuck 03-01-2011 06:56 PM

Have you looked into marine-type (but not grade) twist-locks?

edit: apparently they also use them in RV's.

M_C

clearwaterbrewer 03-01-2011 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walker (Post 2693883)
You need a ground wire. Period.

If current leaks, but can't find a path to ground, then you potentially have metal items "charged up" and waiting to surprise you.

The ground wire needs to be present so that a current leak ABSOLUTELY has a path to ground and will pop the GFI.

IMHO, you are incorrect.

A GFCI *does not* need a ground wire to operate and save people from electrocution... In fact, older houses without ground wires can install 3-wire outlets and be to code ONLY if they have a GFCI..

'current leaks... can't find a path to ground' these statements are mutually exclusive.... it either leaks to ground or it goes to nuetral... GFCI detects the dangerous current 'not going to neutral' (not 'going to ground')

AC does not 'charge up'.. static electricity 'charges up', and is DC


ground conductors are not considered 'current carrying', they provide a reference point... and a path to ground *if* the neutral becomes open... a GFCI is much better at protection than a ground...

-mike

clearwaterbrewer 03-01-2011 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Misplaced_Canuck (Post 2693932)
Have you looked into marine-type (but not grade) twist-locks?

edit: apparently they also use them in RV's.

M_C

Yes, L21-30 seems to be the name you can look for on eBay... decent deals on plugs, receptacles and the like..

again, going over the 30A rating, but I have used 15A 110V connectors at 23A (4500W-240V) (good quality like hubbell, as harbor freight doesn't work so great)

-mike

Walker 03-01-2011 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clearwaterbrewer (Post 2693964)
IMHO, you are incorrect.

A GFCI *does not* need a ground wire to operate and save people from electrocution... In fact, older houses without ground wires can install 3-wire outlets and be to code ONLY if they have a GFCI..

'current leaks... can't find a path to ground' these statements are mutually exclusive.... it either leaks to ground or it goes to nuetral... GFCI detects the dangerous current 'not going to neutral' (not 'going to ground')

Ok, I was trying to speak simply and didn't mean for you to literally take things like "charge up" to mean like charging up a capacitor or anything.

If I set a metal keg on a wooden stand and then connect a live 120V wire to it, but I don't connect neutral or ground.

What then?

If you touch it, you can create the path to ground.

Yes, the GFI will pop and save you.

If there was a ground wire connected to the keg, the GFI would have popped without you having to be involved.

burbelly 03-01-2011 07:22 PM

I went with ss2-50r (or ss2-50p for male). It is used for RVs and boats and it is 50A rated. It can be pricey but if you look out, you might find a deal.

gunner65 03-01-2011 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walker (Post 2694013)
If there was a ground wire connected to the keg, the GFI would have popped without you having to be involved.

Now Walker you meant to say "trip" ;) :D

clearwaterbrewer 03-01-2011 07:38 PM

yes, with a live wire connected to a metal keg on a wooden stand, the ground wire would trip a GFCI before your body would...

I should have explained that this was to the control box, not the keg, and a Neutral would be involved, (which is very close to ground unless high current is one only one leg)

so the answer may be to run L1/N/L2 to the control box, and have the GFCI in the control box, then the 3-wire L1/L2+Ground to the elements ... if L1 or L2 leaked current to anywhere but to each other, the GFCI trips..

-mike


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