Get your HBT Growlers, Shirts and Membership before the Rush!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Electric Brewing > E-Stop
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-26-2011, 10:18 AM   #11
lschiavo
Drinks Beer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
lschiavo's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Surrounded by Yoopers
Posts: 4,003
Liked 794 Times on 530 Posts
Likes Given: 548

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by P-J
Please keep in mind that once the E-Stop is pressed the GFCI will cut all of the power to the control panel within a millisecond. There is no need to have higher wattage resistors or resistors that limit the current draw to a lower level. We are talking about 0.06A for less time that it would take for you to blink your eye. Will the resistors heat up? NOT a chance.!
I agree. The wattage rating of the resistors is really not a factor considering the speed of the GFCI. Can you then explain the function of the 1A fuse when the resistors will fry at about 20mA? Aren't the resistors already acting as a fuse? And do you really want a fuse in such a critical circuit? Why not drop the fuse and design the circuit to be capable of sustained fault current?
__________________
lschiavo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-26-2011, 10:50 AM   #12
P-J
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,284
Liked 260 Times on 207 Posts
Likes Given: 459

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lschiavo View Post
I agree. The wattage rating of the resistors is really not a factor considering the speed of the GFCI. Can you then explain the function of the 1A fuse when the resistors will fry at about 20mA? Aren't the resistors already acting as a fuse? And do you really want a fuse in such a critical circuit? Why not drop the fuse and design the circuit to be capable of sustained fault current?
Please keep in mind that fuses and circuit breakers are placed to protect the wiring. I place that fuse in the circuit for that exact purpose - to protect the wiring. It allows you to run a relatively small wiring set to the E-Stop switch and a low current switch as well. If you are not comfortable with that, do it your way.

As far as "design the circuit to be capable ..." - that already exists within the GFCI breaker. One only needs to walk to the power panel and press the test button when an emergency presents itself. Hey, it could be a long walk, but, what the heck.
__________________
P-J is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-26-2011, 11:47 AM   #13
lschiavo
Drinks Beer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
lschiavo's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Surrounded by Yoopers
Posts: 4,003
Liked 794 Times on 530 Posts
Likes Given: 548

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by P-J
Please keep in mind that fuses and circuit breakers are placed to protect the wiring. I place that fuse in the circuit for that exact purpose - to protect the wiring. It allows you to run a relatively small wiring set to the E-Stop switch and a low surrent switch as well. If you are not comfortable with that, do it your way.

Are we worried about protecting the wire when our brewery is melting down around us? I do not believe that a fuse belongs in a critical circuit. You seem knowledgeable. Have you ever wired a fire pump? Protecting the wire is the last concern.

As far as "design the circuit to be capable ..." - that already exists within the GFCI breaker. One only needs to walk to the power panel and press the test button when an emergency presents itself. Hey, it could be a long walk, but, what the heck.
So a GFCI will never fail? It will never require more than a millisecond to trip? What if it takes just a fraction of a second longer to trip than the resistors take to burn up? Why build in a fail?

Let's say we put 4 1k 1W resistors in series. 30mA fault current should be plenty. You can hold the button all day and not fry the resistors.

Here's a scenario you may not have thought of...say your a safe brewer and you test your GFI before each brew session. This time it doesn't work. Now replace the breaker and the resistors you just fried.

I dunno, makes sense to me.

Edit...sorry I typed in the middle of your quote...stupid phones...
__________________
lschiavo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-26-2011, 11:55 AM   #14
P-J
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,284
Liked 260 Times on 207 Posts
Likes Given: 459

Default

Do what ever you want to do. Just go for it.!
You don't like the way I present a drawing?
Don't use it.

I'm done.!!!!

__________________
P-J is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-26-2011, 12:11 PM   #15
lschiavo
Drinks Beer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
lschiavo's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Surrounded by Yoopers
Posts: 4,003
Liked 794 Times on 530 Posts
Likes Given: 548

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by P-J
Do what ever you want to do. Just go for it.!
You don't like the way I present a drawing?
Don't use it.

I'm done.!!!!
I am offering constructive criticism. I don't want a fight. I saw what I believe to be a flaw in your design and offered a fix. I also complemented you at the start of our discussion. Does you being "done" mean I'm right?
__________________
lschiavo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-26-2011, 07:16 PM   #16
Bsquared
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Bsquared's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,816
Liked 56 Times on 51 Posts
Likes Given: 22

Default

I'm sure there are a million ways to skin this cat, but I'm going to stick with PJ's diagram. I was just confused on mainly on how to integrate the resisters into the wiring. But also I guess on the size of the resisters too.

On a side note I'd like to thank PJ again for all the help directly and indirectly on my electric build.

Thanks PJ!

__________________
Bsquared is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-26-2011, 07:35 PM   #17
jsguitar
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jsguitar's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Overland Park, KS
Posts: 1,084
Liked 96 Times on 75 Posts
Likes Given: 507

Default

I twisted and soldered the wires going to and from the resistors and twisted and soldered the resistors to each other. I then used heat shrink on the whole thing. Worked fine.

__________________
jsguitar is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-26-2011, 08:29 PM   #18
lschiavo
Drinks Beer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
lschiavo's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Surrounded by Yoopers
Posts: 4,003
Liked 794 Times on 530 Posts
Likes Given: 548

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsguitar
I twisted and soldered the wires going to and from the resistors and twisted and soldered the resistors to each other. I then used heat shrink on the whole thing. Worked fine.
This is exactly what I did but with 4 1k resistors and no fuse.

I'm in the middle of building a panel now and I really think this estop method is smart and I borrowed it from PJs drawing. I'm not trying to bash PJ but I think the fuse is a waste of time and money and the resistors fail if not for the gfi tripping.

This circuit is only meant to carry current in an emergency. I want mine to work when I need it to. I don't want it to have weak links and inherent fails. If you do, build the circuit as drawn. I'm just trying to offer a fix that is cheaper and much more failproof.
__________________
lschiavo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
System Power/E-Stop Jandro Electric Brewing 9 02-10-2011 07:40 PM
Power/E-stop Wiring for 2 inputs (120V & 220V) thelorax121 Electric Brewing 15 02-03-2011 02:58 AM
Looking for One Stop shop for RIMs electrical Rims Components kegtoe Electric Brewing 4 12-26-2010 03:10 AM



Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS