The Great Bottle Opener Giveaway

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Electric Brewing > control panel questions

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-24-2012, 02:41 PM   #1
theonetrueruss
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
theonetrueruss's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 787
Liked 37 Times on 23 Posts

Default control panel questions

Now that I have a working eHERMS setup using a Ranco controller and a small box for my SSR, and multiple power strips for turning various things on and off I have a working mess. It works well. just not pretty.

So my next step is going to be to design and build my control panel. I have most of it worked out but there are a couple of details that I am getting stuck on.

Question #1:
Is there a standard for what color LED should indicate what? It looks like yellow, green, blue, white, and red are the colors we mostly have to work with.

Questions #2:
What parts do I need to put in an emergency cutoff button with an LED to indicate it is in cutoff mode?

I think that is all I need to know for now to continue with my design.

__________________
TheOneTrueRuss
Fat Messiah Brewing

Last edited by theonetrueruss; 06-24-2012 at 02:43 PM. Reason: spelling error that annoyed me
theonetrueruss is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-24-2012, 04:22 PM   #2
P-J
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,231
Liked 244 Times on 196 Posts
Likes Given: 430

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theonetrueruss View Post
...
Question #1:
Is there a standard for what color LED should indicate what? It looks like yellow, green, blue, white, and red are the colors we mostly have to work with.

Questions #2:
What parts do I need to put in an emergency cutoff button with an LED to indicate it is in cutoff mode?
...
#1 - You get to choose the indicator color for the function.

#2 - This is a huge depends. The EPO I normally set up is designed to trip the GFCI circuit breaker that feeds power to the control panel. With that setup, there is no power available to drive an indicator lamp.

There are other designs that just drop the power within the controller, but I personally have a real problem with that method. In a dire emergency I do not want any power available in the brew area.

That's just me.

Wishing you great success.

P-J
__________________
P-J is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-24-2012, 04:52 PM   #3
Bobby_M
Vendor and Brewer
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 2 reviews
 
Bobby_M's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Whitehouse Station, NJ
Posts: 21,822
Liked 899 Times on 600 Posts
Likes Given: 26

Default

I'd rather have a mainpower live indicator than tripped estop.

__________________
BrewHardware.com
Sightglass, Refractometer, Ball Valve, Weldless bulkhead, Thermometer, Decals, Stainless Steel Fittings, Compression Fittings, Camlock Quick Disconnects, Scale, RIMS tube, Plate Chiller, Chugger Pump, Super Clear Silicone Tubing, and more!

New Stuff?
Bobby_M is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-24-2012, 05:14 PM   #4
theonetrueruss
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
theonetrueruss's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 787
Liked 37 Times on 23 Posts

Default

ok, so for the estop it would be MOST effective to just use a NO mushroom button and wire it from a leg to ground. That should trip the GFCI and end power to my brew area.

Planning a main power live indicator. I think I was getting carried away with wanting more lights than I need.

Thanks, that is simpler and safer.

__________________
TheOneTrueRuss
Fat Messiah Brewing
theonetrueruss is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-24-2012, 07:40 PM   #5
ruralbrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Strum, WI
Posts: 242
Liked 74 Times on 48 Posts
Likes Given: 34

Default

For the e-stop you run one leg to ground, but if you look at any of PJ's diagrams you will see the infeed is fused and runs through a couple 1K 1 watt resistors. All it takes is a trickle of current, there is really no need to slam 120 volts across the mushroom button. Which is why it is good to position your box with the GFCI in it close to the brewing area. If you ever need to use this particular feature you don't want to have to walk all the way across your property to reset the breaker. I know I tend to inadvertently hit the e-stop button on the machine at work, I have a feeling I will probably be doing the same thing when I get my electric system built.

__________________

I may be ignorant but that doesn't stop me from having an opinion
ruralbrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-25-2012, 02:41 AM   #6
theonetrueruss
Senior Member
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
theonetrueruss's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Woodstock, GA
Posts: 787
Liked 37 Times on 23 Posts

Default

Good point on the resistors... my spa panel is in my garage where I brew so I am good there. Thanks!

__________________
TheOneTrueRuss
Fat Messiah Brewing
theonetrueruss is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-26-2012, 04:02 PM   #7
audger
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: ., Connecticut
Posts: 1,497
Liked 40 Times on 40 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by P-J View Post
The EPO I normally set up is designed to trip the GFCI circuit breaker that feeds power to the control panel.
the reason i dont like this design is because its not a good idea to use a GFCI as a regular switch. its fine to do this if you are concious of that and only use the E-stop in an emergency (meaning, you practically never use it). but if its there, people are inclined to use it as a power switch, which it certainly isnt.

the reason is because GFCIs arent meant to be a regular switch for 10, 20, 50amps of current. they quickly wear out, and not only are they expensive, but that could also mean they fail to work when you need them the most.

this is why the best E-stop is a NO contactor; you press a momentary "on" button to energize and latch the contactor, and then your E-stop breaks the contactor circuit. also- that way if you lose power, everything will revert to "off" when you plug it back in and you dont have to worry about flipping all your switches first or burning out elements.

but as long as everyone is aware that the e-stop button is not the same as an off switch, theres nothing wrong with it. it will work. its just my nature to assume people are going to be stupid and plan accordingly.

Quote:
I know I tend to inadvertently hit the e-stop button on the machine at work,
kind of case and point (but machines at your work are probably protected by a contactor instead of GFCI, so thats not a big deal.)
__________________
audger is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-26-2012, 09:56 PM   #8
P-J
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 3,231
Liked 244 Times on 196 Posts
Likes Given: 430

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audger View Post
the reason i dont like this design is because
...
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

BTW - Do you ever press the test button on the GFCI outlet in you bathroom or kitchen?

Just saying.
__________________
P-J is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 06-26-2012, 10:53 PM   #9
mateomtb
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pine, Co
Posts: 122
Liked 7 Times on 7 Posts
Likes Given: 7

Default

Quote:
they quickly wear out, and not only are they expensive, but that could also mean they fail to work when you need them the most.
I've done some casual internet research about this and can't really find anything about them necessarily "wearing out" from being tripped. Do you have any info regarding the duty cycle of pushing the reset button on a gfci breaker? I do see lots of information about testing them and that they are not functioning (this seems to be a common thing in high lightning strike areas), which means they still are outputting power without gfci protection which is obviously not good, but.......

It also seems that the more recent generation of gfci breakers are designed to actually fail open. So if they are not capable of protecting with gfci, the breaker won't even stay on. So it seems like a broken gfci would never even have the opportunity to fall into the "fail to work when you need them the most" category.

I don't know. Does anyone know if the recent typical Spa panel gfci breakers are the kind that fail open?
__________________
mateomtb is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-03-2012, 08:31 AM   #10
NewBrewB
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
NewBrewB's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: N. Kingstown, Rhode Island
Posts: 741
Liked 19 Times on 17 Posts
Likes Given: 10

Default

If I underatood this last post, I am very interested in the answer.

__________________
From what I hear, my wet bar thread "delivers" hah
NewBrewB is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New Control Panel Spring_Chicken Electric Brewing 5 06-05-2012 07:34 PM
Using A Retired Service Panel For A Control Panel kgalle Electric Brewing 2 04-25-2012 11:52 AM
Control Panel Help friedpicklechips Electric Brewing 15 02-25-2012 02:33 PM
Mounting spa panel guts in control panel kevink Electric Brewing 7 08-20-2011 02:31 AM
Control panel wiring questions jbug440 Electric Brewing 2 04-15-2011 11:45 AM