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Old 06-25-2011, 02:27 AM   #1
Dirty
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Default Control Panel Design

So I need to make an E Rig as cheap as possible because im on a tight budget. Ive been searching for a while for a wiring diagram to fit my design need an have only come up with diagrams that partially fit what im looking for.

Im going with a 2 element system. Original i just wanted a manual setup but thinking about going PID plus SSR and am considering this panel design: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/simple-control-panel-wiring-help-216604/

With a manual switch to toggle between HLT and Boil Kettle similar to what Kal has:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/selector-switch-automatically-turns-off-when-powers-cut-203034/

My question is can i wire two elements in to the panel and set the toggle switch in between the two to select which element is hot when i choose. I know Ill have to change over the thermocouple or switch to manual mode to run the bk. Just looking for some info or a link to a setup like im looking for.

Thanks

Rock Chalk

Chris



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Old 06-25-2011, 03:45 AM   #2
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Chris,

How about this?
[Click on the image to see a full scale diagram that is printable on Tabloid paper (11" x 17") ]



It uses a single PID and one temp probe that stays in the HLT to regulate its temp.
The boil is controlled by the PID in manual mode by controlling the percent of power applied.

P-J



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Old 06-25-2011, 03:22 PM   #3
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PJ
Thanks, that is awesome and i was meaning to e-mail you because know what your doing. I think ive seen this diagram in other threads and the only question that i have (I forgot to include this as i was enjoying a few India Browns that hit 1.078 OG) how would this work with the power supply i have ran to my garage. It is 10/3 30A and i believe it doesn't have a neutral line. Isnt this diagram for 10/4? My neighbor is an electrician and is willing to help so im not worried about killing myself. Just want to make sure everything meshes properly and there are no surprises halfway through.

Thanks

Rock Chalk

Chris

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Old 06-25-2011, 04:16 PM   #4
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Chris,

Easy solution for you. Go to HomeDepot and buy this GE 50A 240V Spa Panel GFCI for $49.00 and then wire it up this way:



Use a 3 wire dryer cord for its input and then install a 4 wire outlet for the output to your brewery. The panel will then provide your GFCI protection & the mains panel will provide the 30A breaker for your rig. Plus you also develop the equipment ground while doing it without having to rewire your house. Another added benefit is the panel is a lot cheaper than just buying a 30A GFCI for your mains panel.

Hope this helps.

Edit: You might want to get this Leviton 2716 30-Amp, 125/250 Volt, Flanged Outlet to mount in the spa panel.

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Old 06-26-2011, 11:57 AM   #5
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I got to thinking more about the outlet I suggested in my last post.That one is very expensive, There are lots of other options for the outlet:
Leviton 278-PM 30Amp, 125/250Volt, NEMA 14-30R, Panel Mounting Receptacle

Leviton 071-00278-000 4 Wire 30 Amp 250 Volt Flush Mount Dryer Receptacle

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Old 06-26-2011, 01:26 PM   #6
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PJ

Thanks again for the help. Right now my power supply is coiled up behind the wall where i would mount the spa panel so im thinking i could just hard wire it to it rather than using the dryer cord.

I now plan to go this route so the extension cord from the panel to the control panel would have to be 10/4 and everything supplying power to the elements would have to be 10/3.


I was thinking about the design and i like the idea of being able to add a pump later on and not having to redo the entire panel.

Ever come through KC and ill have a bag of grain waiting for all your help..

Thanks again

Rock Chalk

Chris

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Old 06-26-2011, 01:37 PM   #7
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Chris,

You are very welcome.
Please keep us posted on your plan & build adventure.

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Old 06-28-2011, 01:34 AM   #8
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P-J

I have the same 50A spa panel from HD and am considering wiring it to a 30A 3-wire (2xHOT + GRD) the way you recommend. However, my ground wire is bare (and maybe one size smaller than the 2 hot lines). Is it safe to carry current on a bare wire?

I will be running 1 4500W element with PID and a 240V LG pump for basic HERMS with gas boil. I don't need the 120V option now but may want it when I expand in the future (eventually want to go all electric). I have all of my parts and am going to start laying out components, marking my enclosure for PIDs, switches and lights.

This forum has been so helpful in my planning!! I don't know how long it would have taken to figure all this out without guidance!

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Old 06-28-2011, 11:29 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedog_Brewing View Post
I have the same 50A spa panel from HD and am considering wiring it to a 30A 3-wire (2xHOT + GRD) the way you recommend. However, my ground wire is bare (and maybe one size smaller than the 2 hot lines). Is it safe to carry current on a bare wire?
...
Actually that wire is the neutral conductor and, although it is a bare conductor within the cable, it is insulated by the outer cable sheath.

One must consider the power delivered to a dryer or to an electric range in the kitchen. The dryer and the range are not pure 240V units. Each of them have 120V devices within them (timer, controls, lights), so indeed the 3rd wire in the power cord is the neutral. Grounding in these devices is also provided by the neutral by using a bonding strap within it from the neutral to the cabinet frame. Current NEC code requires that a separate ground and neutral be provided. But that code applies to wiring that was placed after the code change. It does not apply to existing wiring.

Now, If you were just plugging into a 3 prong outlet for your brew rig, there would be no problem using that neutral as a common neutral/ground. However: Enter a GFCI into the plan and it's a new ball game.

The Spa Panel gives you the vehicle to provide GFCI protection. If your brewery power is from a 3 wire 240V outlet, the Spa Panel wiring I illustrated is your method to break out the ground and the neutral.

I hope this clarifies it for you and makes sense.
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Old 06-30-2011, 04:22 PM   #10
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P-J
Will the wireing diagram you show in this thread work with any spa panel.
The reason I ask I because I have a Square D 200 amp service in the house with a 60 amp feed comming off that to a panel for my garage but it is just 3 wire. In my main box the neutral and ground lugs are connected so I dont understand why 4 wires. My spa panel is a Connecticut Electric and it shows a four wire instalation. Should I run a ground wire from my ground rod the make 4th wire.



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