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Old 04-04-2012, 12:21 PM   #31
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Dgonza9, Although that chart you showed and the NEC say that it's permissible to fit 16, 12 AWG wires in 3/4" EMT, another section of the NEC states that you can only have a 40% fill in that pipe. That's about 6, #12s. http://www.lanshack.com/DesigningConduitRuns.aspx
As has been said, you can use EMT as a ground, but I always run a ground wire anyway. I've seen runs of conduit rust away in the middle.
Were you pulling solid or stranded wire? Stranded is much easier to pull. You can use wire lube or Ivory liquid dish detergent to ease the pull. If you can use two 45s instead of a 90 that will also make pulling easier. You can use LBs (or LR/LL s) http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...tex-Industries . They allow you to get closer to your boxes.
The more couplings you use the more chances there are to have the "head" get stuck. Since you're right up there near Chicago land (where they use pipe for everything electrical...), you could probably give an electrician the measurements and have him (or her) bend the pipe for you for a couple of bucks. Too late now though.
The Divine Comedy was a good read, especially the liner notes (Penguin Publishing) that showed what Dante was referring to. I would've been lost without them. Good luck, Pete

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Old 04-04-2012, 03:48 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petey_c View Post
Dgonza9, Although that chart you showed and the NEC say that it's permissible to fit 16, 12 AWG wires in 3/4" EMT, another section of the NEC states that you can only have a 40% fill in that pipe. That's about 6, #12s. http://www.lanshack.com/DesigningConduitRuns.aspx
As has been said, you can use EMT as a ground, but I always run a ground wire anyway. I've seen runs of conduit rust away in the middle.
Were you pulling solid or stranded wire? Stranded is much easier to pull. You can use wire lube or Ivory liquid dish detergent to ease the pull. If you can use two 45s instead of a 90 that will also make pulling easier. You can use LBs (or LR/LL s) http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...tex-Industries . They allow you to get closer to your boxes.
The more couplings you use the more chances there are to have the "head" get stuck. Since you're right up there near Chicago land (where they use pipe for everything electrical...), you could probably give an electrician the measurements and have him (or her) bend the pipe for you for a couple of bucks. Too late now though.
The Divine Comedy was a good read, especially the liner notes (Penguin Publishing) that showed what Dante was referring to. I would've been lost without them. Good luck, Pete

Hmmmmm... Whoever wrote that code book needs to learn about something called a "logical fallacy. I don't get the contradiction in the code book. Does it make sense somehow that I can't see or is it really a contradiction? Why would they tell you you can "fit" that many wires in the pipe, but then later say to only fill it 40%?

I have 10 wires in mine. 8 #12 and 2 #10 for neutral and ground. They are stranded. I just plugged my numbers into an iPhone app "Conduit Fill Calculator" based on NEC 2007 code. For 10 #12 wires it says 3/4" EMT. Not sure how that fits in with the information you provide, which seemed to be a different code "569."

Once I used the lube they pulled easy. From what I read in the NEC book, it said that beyond 9 wires you have to consider it to have only 70% ampacity. But that would still be fine for my application.



Congrats on reading "The Divine Comedy." Did you read all three books? And more importantly, congrats on enjoying it. My students are starting it now and many of them dig it. They argue endlessly about the concepts of justice and sin.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:03 PM   #33
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You have to look at the code book as a source of information as well as being a safety guideline. It gives you the size of the wire and the size of the conduit as information so that you can calculate how many wires will fit in accordance with the fill capacity. Some installations allow a larger fill capacity than others and sometimes you are putting different size wires in the same conduit so you need the sizing information to do your calculations.

You also don't need to count the neutral wires for the ampacity de-ration but you do need to count them for conduit fill.

16 #12 THHN conductors is 40% fill on a piece of 3/4 EMT

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Old 04-04-2012, 04:17 PM   #34
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So the chart I had was correct. I also plugged in all the conductors and their sizes into the iPhone app I mentioned. It also states that 3/4" is acceptable and is based on 2007 NEC Codebook.

I'm finding it hard right now to pigtail the #10 wires to share the ground and neutral wires on each receptacle. They seem to want to come out of the pigtail cap. I need to get caps sized for 3 #10 wires. I mine are sized to hold only 2.

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Old 04-04-2012, 04:26 PM   #35
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3M Ranger 512. Only wire nuts we use.
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Old 04-04-2012, 04:34 PM   #36
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I like the red Ideal wire nuts myself. I know it's old school and makes for a more permanent installation but you could solder and tape the connections.

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Old 04-04-2012, 06:29 PM   #37
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I like the 3M tan and red combination wire nuts

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Old 04-04-2012, 09:10 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hxcpunk71
I like the 3M tan and red combination wire nuts
It's yellow and red now. 212 and 512 respectively. Best wire nuts out there IMO.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:15 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yjfun
I like the red Ideal wire nuts myself. I know it's old school and makes for a more permanent installation but you could solder and tape the connections.
No disrespect to you but Ideal can shove their product...at least the last time I considered it. I once opened a ceiling box with at least 50 connections...more than half of the nuts were laying on the back of the box cover. Must have been vibration...never a problem with Rangers.
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Old 04-04-2012, 09:24 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lschiavo View Post
No disrespect to you but Ideal can shove their product...at least the last time I considered it. I once opened a ceiling box with at least 50 connections...more than half of the nuts were laying on the back of the box cover. Must have been vibration...never a problem with Rangers.
That must have been one huge electrical box. Mounted in the ceiling?

I'm standing in awe at the prospect of that wiring layout...
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