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Old 06-17-2014, 03:50 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by kal View Post
I have complete instructions to build this sort of 50A back to back control panel right here, including parts lists and wiring diagrams. It shows you how to adapt my standard 30A (single heating element at a time) instructions found here. I go into gory detail every step of the way with 100's of photos. The standard 30A panel build instructions cover everything you'll want to know about GFCIs too.

Kal
Thanks again Kal, I have starred at your setup many of times and tried to stop myself from drooling.

So the standard system is setup to run 1 5500 element at a time right, you just switch between what is needed.

If I wanted to be able to run 2 simultaneously I would simple need 2 30amp inputs into the box compared to the 1 and then wire it accordingly right?

I would like to keep the 5500w elements and not go with the 4500, so essentially dedicate a 30 amp breaker for each element.

I understand that running 2x5500w elements on 50 amps is running really close to the 50amps and probably something I would like to avoid.
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On tap: #79 Berliner Weisse 1.030 9/20/12, Flanders, Barleywine, Wild Blonde (1.045 blonde hopped up and fermented with WLP644), #80B rett Saison
Fermenting: #82 Galaxy IPA, #83 Black IPA
Aging: #67 Bareleywine 1.116 11/07/2012, Flanders 2 batches 1.056 and 1.060 12/12/11 and 3/26/12, Kriek, 1.052 12/11,
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Old 06-17-2014, 03:57 PM   #12
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So the standard system is setup to run 1 5500 element at a time right, you just switch between what is needed.
Corrrect. This is the standard 30A control panel.

Quote:
If I wanted to be able to run 2 simultaneously I would simple need 2 30amp inputs into the box compared to the 1 and then wire it accordingly right? I would like to keep the 5500w elements and not go with the 4500, so essentially dedicate a 30 amp breaker for each element.
No, probably not. Follow the changes required to adapt and build a 50A "back to back" control panel here. Most people are ok with one 50A supply is required to drive two 5500W elements. You can now control the elements on/off separately. Confirm with your electrician if you're allowed to draw more than 80% circuit capacity for this sort of use. There's more information/complete details in the FAQ questions in the link above.

Regardless I would not pull two separate circuits into the box but a 60A circuit if you really feel you need 30A x 2.

Quote:
I understand that running 2x5500w elements on 50 amps is running really close to the 50amps and probably something I would like to avoid.
See above. It's 45.8 amps. Most electricians are fine with this but make sure to check.

Kal
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:02 PM   #13
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Corrrect. This is the standard 30A control panel.


No, probably not. Follow the changes required to adapt and build a 50A "back to back" control panel here. Most people are ok with one 50A supply is required to drive two 5500W elements. You can now control the elements on/off separately. Confirm with your electrician if you're allowed to draw more than 80% circuit capacity for this sort of use. There's more information/complete details in the FAQ questions in the link above.

Regardless I would not pull two separate circuits into the box but a 60A circuit if you really feel you need 30A x 2.


See above. It's 45.8 amps. Most electricians are fine with this but make sure to check.

Kal
Well I do live in California, and they like laws here

I found this
https://law.resource.org/pub/us/code...sc.2013.03.pdf

from page 78 of the PDF

Quote:
210.23 Permissible Loads. In no case shall the load
exceed the branch-circuit ampere rating. An individual
branch circuit shall be permitted to supply any load for
which it is rated. A branch circuit supplying two or more
outlets or receptacles shall supply only the loads specified
according to its size as specified in 210.23(A) through (D)
and as summarized in 210.24 and Table 210.24.

(A) 15- and 20-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 15- or 20-
ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply
lighting units or other utilization equipment, or a
combination of both, and shall comply with 210.23(A)(1)
and (A)(2).
Exception: The small-appliance branch circuits, laundry
branch circuits, and bathroom branch circuits required in
a dwelling unit(sj by 210.11(Cj(1), (Cj(2j, and (C)(3)
shall supply only the receptacle outlets specified in that
section.
(1) Cord-and-Plug-Connected Equipment Not
Fastened in Place. The rating of anyone cord-and-plug connected
utilization equipment not fastened in place shall
not exceed 80 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating.
(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place. The total
rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other
than luminaires, shall not exceed 50 percent of the
branch-circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cordand-
plug-connected utilization equipment not tastened in
place, or both, are also supplied.

(B) 30-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 30-ampere branch
circuit shall be permitted to supply fixed lighting units with
heavy-duty lampholders in other than a dwelling unites) or
utilization equipment in any occupancy. A rating of any
one cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment shall
not exceed 80 percent ofthe branch-circuit ampere rating.

(C) 40- and 50-Ampere Branch Circuits. A 40- or 50-
ampere branch circuit shall be permitted to supply cooking
appliances that are fastened in place in any occupancy. In
other than dwelling units, such circuits shall be permitted to
supply fixed lighting units with heavy-duty lampholders,
infrared heating units, or other utilization equipment.

(D) Branch Circuits Larger Than 50 Amperes. Branch
circuits larger than 50 amperes shall supply only
nonlighting outlet loads.
The real question is what is the harm of running 45.8 amps on a 50 amp circuit?
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On tap: #79 Berliner Weisse 1.030 9/20/12, Flanders, Barleywine, Wild Blonde (1.045 blonde hopped up and fermented with WLP644), #80B rett Saison
Fermenting: #82 Galaxy IPA, #83 Black IPA
Aging: #67 Bareleywine 1.116 11/07/2012, Flanders 2 batches 1.056 and 1.060 12/12/11 and 3/26/12, Kriek, 1.052 12/11,
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Old 06-17-2014, 05:10 PM   #14
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Speak to your electrician. This has been discussed ad nauseam on the forum here in dozens of threads and what it basically comes down to is personal interpretation of the rules. I cover some the logic/reasons in the FAQ for the 50A back to back build instructions I linked to earlier if you want to dig into it.

Kal

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