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Old 07-19-2013, 06:56 PM   #1
Jazzeux
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Default Breaker always tripping

I'm building a e-Herms and when I plug my pannel, it always trips. I tried to unplug everything from the blocks inside the pannel. So the breaker is working fine. As soon I a plug back a single PID or a "120v to 12v transformer", the breaker is tripping.

I started using P-J's wiring diagram that I adapted to my equipment. I'm using my 50A GFCI spa breaker pannel. I put an RV 50a plug after that pannel, so I can unplug my spa and plug my e-Herms. My spa is working fine, so I'm sure the problem is in my herms pannel.

I also tried to plug a 120v wire to the line 1 and neutral before plugging it into the spa pannel and everything was working fine!!

Here is my mod of P-J's wiring diagram:

wiring-6.jpg  
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Old 07-20-2013, 01:32 AM   #2
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I had a similar thing happen to me. After triple and quadruple checking my wires and connections, I realized I had a short that was throwing the breaker. I bet you do too, based on what you are describing.

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Old 07-20-2013, 02:04 AM   #3
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If you disconnect the wires from the terminal blocks one at a time you can find out which wire is causing the breaker to trip and then trace that to the problem. Also, post a pic of the inside of your panel and someone might be able to see the error.

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Old 07-20-2013, 03:47 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by mrwizard0 View Post
If you disconnect the wires from the terminal blocks one at a time you can find out which wire is causing the breaker to trip and then trace that to the problem. Also, post a pic of the inside of your panel and someone might be able to see the error.
I did that, but everytime I try to connect something using only 120v, the breaker trips. I think I will look inside the spa gfci box. I know it's a 4 wires install in and out. I will post the inside of that box tomorow.

Here are 2 pictures of the inside, but almost everything is disconnected from the distribution block since I tried the steps above.
2013-07-19_150053.jpg   2013-07-19_150108.jpg  
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Old 07-20-2013, 04:15 AM   #5
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Did you run all the neutrals back to the breaker? If not, the breaker will trip right away. If your tripping right away while trying to use 120V, I'd guess you one or more neutrals not going back through the breaker...

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Old 07-20-2013, 06:39 PM   #6
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Did you run all the neutrals back to the breaker? If not, the breaker will trip right away. If your tripping right away while trying to use 120V, I'd guess you one or more neutrals not going back through the breaker...
I think every neutral are back to the breaker, but I'm not sure to understand you.

I'm posting pics of inside my electric pannel and my spa pannel so it will be more clear.
img_20130720_141247.jpg   img_20130720_142214.jpg  
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:04 AM   #7
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Can't quite tell from the spa panel photo but the circuit neutral must be attached to the GFCI breaker, NOT the neutral buss bar. The gfci neutral pigtail must carry all the neutral current to the neutral buss bar.

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Old 07-21-2013, 03:58 AM   #8
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Can't quite tell from the spa panel photo but the circuit neutral must be attached to the GFCI breaker, NOT the neutral buss bar. The gfci neutral pigtail must carry all the neutral current to the neutral buss bar.
I totally agree.

Your SPA panel neutral connecton for the load is not wired to the break output. What make/model # is your spa panel. I'm not familiar with it and it appears to be only a 240V output unit. (Unless there is another neutral terminal on the braker.)


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Old 07-21-2013, 08:08 PM   #9
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I totally agree.

Your SPA panel neutral connecton for the load is not wired to the break output. What make/model # is your spa panel. I'm not familiar with it and it appears to be only a 240V output unit. (Unless there is another neutral terminal on the braker.)
It's a square d model# CQOE250GFINM from Home Depot (in Canada). Here's the Home Depot Page .
I dug a bit and found that the is a QO250GFI in a non metallic case. So here is the QO250GFI data sheet.

There's no more place for a neutral connection on the breaker. Do you think that's why I can't put 120v in my pannel?
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:42 PM   #10
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It's a square d model# CQOE250GFINM from Home Depot (in Canada). Here's the Home Depot Page .
I dug a bit and found that the is a QO250GFI in a non metallic case. So here is the QO250GFI data sheet.

There's no more place for a neutral connection on the breaker. Do you think that's why I can't put 120v in my pannel?
That particular GFCI breaker does not have a neutral output even though they say it is 120/240V.

This is the one available in the US:
GE 50A 240V Spa Panel GFCI
This one does have a neutral output.

Perhaps you might be able to order it and have it shipped to you?
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