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-   -   Arduino, PID, or other? (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/arduino-pid-other-313671/)

Islandboy85 03-16-2012 09:56 PM

Arduino, PID, or other?
 
M set on going electric in the future. I don't need automation of the entire process. I do however want better temperature control. That having been said, what is the advantage or one system over the other? PIDs cost about $45 each, but one Arduino with a display is under $30. The SSRs, temp sensors, etc are going to meet to be purchased regardless of the system, so I was wondering why someone would go with one over the other.

P-J 03-16-2012 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Islandboy85 (Post 3900078)
M set on going electric in the future. I don't need automation of the entire process. I do however want better temperature control. That having been said, what is the advantage or one system over the other? PIDs cost about $45 each, but one Arduino with a display is under $30. The SSRs, temp sensors, etc are going to meet to be purchased regardless of the system, so I was wondering why someone would go with one over the other.

Just a serious suggestion. Choose wisely and go with a very reliable vendor that backs his products. Auber Instruments is that vendor IMHO.

Also plan on your future adventure. In other words - choose a PID that can handle your adventure down your road of automated brewing. This product is my strong suggestion. SYL-2352

I've posted a lot of diagrams on this forum that might help you. Do a search and you might find one that fits your plan.

Wishing you the best.

P-J

Islandboy85 03-16-2012 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-J
Just a serious suggestion. Choose wisely and go with a very reliable vendor that backs his products. Auber Instruments is that vendor IMHO.

Also plan on your future adventure. In other words - choose a PID that can handle your adventure down your road of automated brewing. This product is my strong suggestion. SYL-2352

I've posted a lot of diagrams on this forum that might help you. Do a search and you might find one that fits your plan.

Wishing you the best.

P-J

That was the Auber PID I was considering. I'm curious about the ease of use of an Arduino. We have Love PIDs on our vacuum ovens in our composite shop at work and other equipment. They seem straight foreword how they work. I'm thinking the Arduino looks a bit harder to master, but seems like I could expand the brewery a lot more, but I don't foresee myself doing that. I still like a hands in approach. I just want more control of temps.

P-J 03-16-2012 10:26 PM

I'm sorry. I read Arduino in your initial post. That is a totally different path down this road.

I'm out and apologize for the interruption and diversion...

P-J

Islandboy85 03-16-2012 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-J
I'm sorry. I read Arduino in your initial post. That is a totally different path down this road.

I'm out and apologize for the interruption and diversion...

P-J

No, it's cool. I'm just wondering what each mehod is capable of, costs, and any other reason people chose them.

P-J 03-16-2012 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Islandboy85 (Post 3900201)
No, it's cool. I'm just wondering what each mehod is capable of, costs, and any other reason people chose them.

Reliability. Backup. Support. Ability for precision control. A boat load of brewers that use the product. Diagrams for wiring it in a brew system. (A lot of 'em drawn by me.)

Sorry for spouting off.

BTW: I'm not affiliated in any way with Auber Instruments. I just think he brings a superior product to the brewers table with awesome suport.

So sorry.. I'm done and out of here with my opinions.

My sincere apologies to you for side tracking your thread.

P-J

Islandboy85 03-16-2012 11:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-J
Reliability. Backup. Support. Ability for precision control. A boat load of brewers that use the product. Diagrams for wiring it in a brew system. (A lot of 'em drawn by me.)

Sorry for spouting off.

BTW: I'm not affiliated in any way with Auber Instruments. I just think he brings a superior product to the brewers table with awesome suport.

So sorry.. I'm done and out of here with my opinions.

My sincere apologies to you for side tracking your thread.

P-J

Yeah, the wiring is easy for me to figure out. I've been googling to see if there is a ready to go code for the Arduino, but haven't really found what I'm looking for. I don't know code, so I think that may sink the Arduino for me. It does look cool, just too hard to learn for now.

gromitdj 03-17-2012 12:03 AM

As far as I know, the brewtroller code is written for the arduino as it is basically the same hardware. You can learn a lot from the brewtroller forums in regards to the Arduino's capability.

Or you may be interested in just using the brewtroller as you controller.

Link: http://www.brewtroller.com

trigger 03-17-2012 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gromitdj (Post 3900412)
As far as I know, the brewtroller code is written for the arduino as it is basically the same hardware. You can learn a lot from the brewtroller forums in regards to the Arduino's capability.

Or you may be interested in just using the brewtroller as you controller.

Link: http://www.brewtroller.com

You won't be able to implement the full brewtroller code on the current arduino uno. You may be able to get it to work for the mega, but it's written for their hardware.

You could definitely use an Arduino as a part of your build, and depending on the size and complexity of your rig it may be able to handle all of the control duties. You can also use it in conjunction with a computer to handle I/O duties over USB or wireless if you want to really get into it. You will also need to design and construct external circuits to drive any additional hardware.

I am currently building a single vessel 5 gal rig with an Arduino. There are some useful libraries out there for PID functionality, temp sensor reading, displays, etc. but you'll have to write your own code. That said, it's not hard to learn at all. When I started 7 weeks ago I had zero programming experience and I now have the first version of the code completed.

I also have a completed 2-vessel brewery using auber PIDs. They are good units, and orders of magnitude simpler to get running, but they also have limited functionality. The basic model doesn't do temperature ramps, which is something I wish I had now. Also, while the alarm relay could be used to trigger events beyond an alarm, you will need to implement whatever logic should follow with additional circuitry or add a uC.

Basically, the auber PIDs are very good at controlling power to the element, but don't do much else. The arduino can do a lot more, but comes at the cost of a significant time investment and will require more complex wiring, as well as knowledge of low voltage circuits.

If I had it to do over again I would have skipped the auber PIDs on my two vessel brewery and built it around an arduino (Mega for that one).

Islandboy85 03-17-2012 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trigger

You won't be able to implement the full brewtroller code on the current arduino uno. You may be able to get it to work for the mega, but it's written for their hardware.

You could definitely use an Arduino as a part of your build, and depending on the size and complexity of your rig it may be able to handle all of the control duties. You can also use it in conjunction with a computer to handle I/O duties over USB or wireless if you want to really get into it. You will also need to design and construct external circuits to drive any additional hardware.

I am currently building a single vessel 5 gal rig with an Arduino. There are some useful libraries out there for PID functionality, temp sensor reading, displays, etc. but you'll have to write your own code. That said, it's not hard to learn at all. When I started 7 weeks ago I had zero programming experience and I now have the first version of the code completed.

I also have a completed 2-vessel brewery using auber PIDs. They are good units, and orders of magnitude simpler to get running, but they also have limited functionality. The basic model doesn't do temperature ramps, which is something I wish I had now. Also, while the alarm relay could be used to trigger events beyond an alarm, you will need to implement whatever logic should follow with additional circuitry or add a uC.

Basically, the auber PIDs are very good at controlling power to the element, but don't do much else. The arduino can do a lot more, but comes at the cost of a significant time investment and will require more complex wiring, as well as knowledge of low voltage circuits.

If I had it to do over again I would have skipped the auber PIDs on my two vessel brewery and built it around an arduino (Mega for that one).

I can build prototype circuits easily, am used to mostly DC wiring since it's what I work around on airplanes, but my geek side is well... It's special. It doesn't learn quickly or retain much. I tried to learn code for those stupid graphing calculators I had in high school and it was an epic failure.

In pieced together an electric rims brewery package from http://www.oscsys.com/home.php and it's not really that much more than an all PID system. That being said I'll be using a pulse wave modulator for the boil kettle probably because, let's face it it's like a stove top. I might do it to the hot liquor tank, too. The mash is the biggest issue I have while brewing right now. I really don't need much to solve my problems, but as I look at upgrading I'd like to only do it once. I'm married and the upgrade to electric will be a stretch probably. I'm sure I'm the first to experience that brewery finance argument though. Lol.


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