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Old 11-22-2012, 12:01 AM   #1
garbageman
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Default 240v 3 wire clarification

Alright. I'm finishing up my planning and purchasing phase of the the new ebrewery. I have a ebrewingsupply box coming, BCS control and a few other goodies. It will be a RIMS setup using 2 keggles.

My question is I'm adding another circuit to the house box and running to a GFI spa disconnect box. The circuit will be 50a at box with 120v on each leg and neutral. Then 6 ga to the spa disconnect. Out of the spa box will be 4 wire to the control box where it all gets divided up to pumps and elements. Using this guide http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/spa-panel-wiring-dummies-266751/

Am I missing anything? Or doing something shady? The only other thing I could think of is 50a GFI breaker at house box and bring 4 wires out and go straight to control panel. Is that safer?

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:06 AM   #2
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If you are adding a new circuit I think you have to use four wires into the spa panel as well as out of the spa panel.... the two hot legs, neutral, and grounding wire.

I believe everything would be as shown in that picture of the spa panel, except there would be no jumper inside the panel from the neutral bus bar to the grounding bus bar, and your grounding wire from the main panel would connect to the grounding bus ba in the spa panel. I believe you also have to ensure the neutral bus bar is not bonded (not electrically connected) to the spa panel housing (on the assumption it's metallic).

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:17 AM   #3
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Or is 4 wire even needed with the control panel design. See below.

http://www.ebrewsupply.com/designs/30a-BCS-2-Electric.pdf

Another option:

I have a 50 a 240 3 wire plug in the garage about 10 feet away for my welder that I could use. Never plan to weld and brew at the same time. I could run that to the Spa disconnect and take it from there. I would need to check that the bare wire in the 3 wire outlet originates from the neutral bus bar in the ouse bar. Correct?

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:24 AM   #4
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whoaruss is correct. That photo is sketchy. Its sad folks are getting misinformed on this site on the proper way to do things. Plain & simple run 4 wires out of your panel, (spa disco or not) 4 wires to your equiptment. The one exceptions to that rule are for 3 wire dryers or ranges. An electric brewery is neither of those, so plain & simple its not allowed. Just because lord PJ photoshopped one into a photo doesn't make it the right by the electrical code.

any system that uses a neutral (120 volt load) in particular when pumps are involved require a dedicated neutral.

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandequeso View Post
The last poster is correct. That photo is sketchy. Its sad folks are getting misinformed on this site on the proper way to do things. Plain & simple run 4 wires out of your panel, (spa disco or not) 4 wires to your equiptment. The one exceptions to that rule are for 3 wire dryers or ranges. An electric brewery is neither of those, so plain & simple its not allowed. Just because lord PJ photoshopped one into a photo doesn't make it the right by the electrical code.
Don't have a problem with that. Plenty of space in the breaker box. I just don't see where the ground from the house box is used in the above schematic.
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Old 11-22-2012, 12:51 AM   #6
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its there in the first diagram. Its not tied to the chassis of the spa disco (some spa discos are plastic.) Its not a integral part of the disconnect as the ground never opens or closes as the other conductors do when you flip the disco on or off. It might be a little easier to follow if the diagram showed you all the conductors coming in, then out of the disco as it would be in a real life application.

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Old 11-22-2012, 12:58 AM   #7
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Second look at the diagram, the legend shows #14 ground wire. It should be #10awg to the elements and #14 to the pumps at a minimum. For up to a 60amp ckt #10 wire is good.

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Old 11-22-2012, 01:24 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandequeso View Post
its there in the first diagram. Its not tied to the chassis of the spa disco (some spa discos are plastic.) Its not a integral part of the disconnect as the ground never opens or closes as the other conductors do when you flip the disco on or off. It might be a little easier to follow if the diagram showed you all the conductors coming in, then out of the disco as it would be in a real life application.
Ok, ill bring 4 wires from house panel to spa. Pass the ground through the box and secure to the chassis of the brewery panel? From the diagram, it looks like it terminates to the chassis panel.
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Old 11-22-2012, 01:51 AM   #9
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Ok, ill bring 4 wires from house panel to spa. Pass the ground through the box and secure to the chassis of the brewery panel? From the diagram, it looks like it terminates to the chassis panel.
The equipment ground (green) needs to be tied to all metal parts of your system. Enclosures, elements, kettles, stand, etc.... It is sized by the overcurrent protection of the circut. If you fuse down a tap, ground wire can also be downsized accordingly.
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:16 AM   #10
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The equipment ground (green) needs to be tied to all metal parts of your system. Enclosures, elements, kettles, stand, etc.... It is sized by the overcurrent protection of the circut. If you fuse down a tap, ground wire can also be downsized accordingly.
From the panel chassis ground, the ground gets passed to elements, pumps and BCS. Do you run a separate ground wire to the kettles from the panel? I assume the RIMS needs to be grounded also? I have seen a lot of e brew setups, but not a lot with grounds attached to everything.
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