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Old 08-23-2012, 01:10 PM   #1
rack04
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Default 220V 30A Wiring Diagram Help

I'm looking for some assistance with a wiring diagram. I was originally planning on a single vessel BIAB 2 heating elements. I was going to use independent circuits supplying 120V from a 20A GFI breaker via 3 prong plug. However, I have decided to switch gears. I have decided to step up to 240V from a 2 pole 30A GFI breaker via 4 prong dryer plug.

This is the wiring diagram I was originally planning to use.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/110v-recirculating-ebiab-2-5-gallon-batches-341219/index4.html#post4329584

I like everything about the wiring diagram. I am requesting that it be modified to show:

1) 240V from a 2 pole 30A GFI breaker via 4 prong dryer plug
2) Single PID and SSR that will provide controls for 2 5500W heating elements
3) Illuminated maintained push button switch to select which heating element to control.



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Old 08-23-2012, 10:26 PM   #2
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You shouldn't run two 5500 watt elemnts at the same time off one pid at the same time if you are only running 30 amps. You'd be overloading the circuit.
How large are the batches you plan on doing? I use a 4500watt element and only run it about 70% to keep a heavy boil, while doing 12 gallon batches. You may not need that much power.



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Old 08-23-2012, 10:42 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by grandequeso View Post
You can't run two 5500 watt elemnts at the same time off one pid at the same time if you are only running 30 amps. You'd be overloading the circuit.
How large are the batches you plan on doing? I use a 4500watt element and only run it about 70% to keep a heavy boil, while doing 12 gallon batches. You may not need that much power.
Fixed that for ya.

Volts * Amps = Watts
So Amps = Watts/Volts

5500/240 = 22.91 amps, and you have 30 Amps available.
Ignoring the fact that you really do need some headroom in your circuit (For instance, if your panel supplies 220 volts instead of 240 volts, you're at 25 amps!), the most you can run off of 30 amps is 7200. And that will more than likely blow your breaker.
I would wager a single 5500 watt element with PID control (Or PWM) will be plenty, and still leave you with 4 amps or so for ancillary gear.

You CAN use a single PID to control 2 sets of SSR's with a simple switch, but is that necessary in a single vessel system? Many here use a single 5500 watt element in 15+ gallon setups.
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What does the primary pressure gauge on the tank tell us? That's right, the temperature. Put it on a scale if you want to know how much is in it...
Put some duct tape over the gauge - Or better yet - Replace the high pressure gauge with a plug - High pressure gauges are useless!
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Old 08-23-2012, 10:44 PM   #4
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If it is single vessel why not stick with one element? Dont start with a diagram and make it fit. Start with requirements. What exactly do you want to do?

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Old 08-23-2012, 10:47 PM   #5
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Perhaps OP was thinking of (2) 2200 watt elements for power in a single vessel?

I'd say just use one 5500 unless it's 15 gallons or more.

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Originally Posted by Ecnerwal View Post
What does the primary pressure gauge on the tank tell us? That's right, the temperature. Put it on a scale if you want to know how much is in it...
Put some duct tape over the gauge - Or better yet - Replace the high pressure gauge with a plug - High pressure gauges are useless!
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:00 PM   #6
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Sorry now that I read through the first post it doesn't make sense. I'm basically interested in a 2 vessel system with 1 240v 5500w element in each vessel. I want to be able to switch because the 2 element so that it is not possible for them to run at the same time. My power is 240v 30a gfci protected. I will be brewing 10 gal batches.

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Old 08-23-2012, 11:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack04 View Post
Sorry now that I read through the first post it doesn't make sense. I'm basically interested in a 2 vessel system with 1 240v 5600w element in each vessel. I want to be able to switch because the 2 element so that it is not possible for them to run at the same time. My power is 240v 30a gfci protected. I will be brewing 10 gal batches.
Makes a lot more sense now

There are 2 versions of the "PJ 2 element diagram" running around. One that will let you run both elements at the same time, and one that has a switch between the PID and the SSR's to only hook the PID to one element at a time.

You want the one with the switch. The element will pull about 23 Amps, leaving you with 4 or 5 amps to run pumps, controllers, etc.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecnerwal View Post
What does the primary pressure gauge on the tank tell us? That's right, the temperature. Put it on a scale if you want to know how much is in it...
Put some duct tape over the gauge - Or better yet - Replace the high pressure gauge with a plug - High pressure gauges are useless!
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Old 08-23-2012, 11:32 PM   #8
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sounds like a double pole double throw contactor might be in you future.

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Old 08-23-2012, 11:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grandequeso View Post
sounds like a double pole double throw contactor might be in you future.
If you use dedicated SSR's on the contactors, all you have to do is switch the low voltage trigger from the PID/PWM to run 2 elements.

You can switch the high voltage side, but it's more expensive hardware. Switch the low voltage side and you can do it with a $1.00 switch if you want to.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecnerwal View Post
What does the primary pressure gauge on the tank tell us? That's right, the temperature. Put it on a scale if you want to know how much is in it...
Put some duct tape over the gauge - Or better yet - Replace the high pressure gauge with a plug - High pressure gauges are useless!
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Old 08-24-2012, 12:21 AM   #10
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you could certainly do it at the previous post says, with a low voltage switch, many prefer to do it on the load side with a two pole contactor for the sake of safety. If you just cut off the low votage side you would have 120 running thru your element and with the possibility of bleed thru on your ssr it could end completing the circuit and being on when it shouldnt be. A well thought out designs cuts both lines (240v) when you turn the element off.

grandequeso



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