Spike Brewing 12.5 Conical Fermenter Giveaway!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Electric Brewing > 220 volt from two 120 volt lines

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-10-2011, 10:37 PM   #1
Bugaboo
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Bugaboo's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Beer In My Mouthland
Posts: 365
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 5

Default 220 volt from two 120 volt lines

Just found a 240 volt subpanel with a lighted switch and fuse housing at a garage sale, so looks like my 240 volt upgrade with just have to happen now. I've got two 120 volt lines running to my bk already. Plan on running one of the hots to my element through a switch and the other through a ssr/pid. Would hate to have to buy 20 feet of cable to run off the 240 outlet from my dryer.

Any reason I can't use two separate 120 volt line to a 240 element? Would I be able to rely on the gfci on each line or would I have to get a 240 volt gfci breaker? haven't wired 240 before so don't have a grasp of the big picture here

__________________

"If you ever reach total enlightenment while drinking beer, I bet it makes beer shoot out your nose."
-Deep Thought, Jack Handy

"Brewers enjoy working to make beer as much as drinking beer instead of working."
-Harold Rudolph

Bugaboo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2011, 02:21 AM   #2
DarkBrood
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 364
Liked 12 Times on 11 Posts
Likes Given: 12

Default

The ONLY two safe ways to get power to a 240V outlet are:
Run a 240V extension cord from your dryer outlet.
Put in a new 240V breaker in your box and wire a new plug on the wall where you want it.

NEVER EVER think it is safe to try to combine voltages for higher than capacity. The breakers aren't built for it. The wires themselves aren't rated for it. The insulation around your wires (and in your walls) is not rated to handle the excess heat. Inline GFCIs are NOT designed to protect from that. DO NOT MESS WITH 240V IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!

I'm not trying to be condescending here - I'm trying to save your life and keep your house from burning down. Find a local electrician that you like and offer him a case of mixed homebrews - he'll probably wire you up for free (especially if you have the breaker and new outlet on hand already). In most states, it isn't legal for you to alter 240V wiring without a license anyway - even if it is your house.

__________________
*** Bryan Gibson *** http://brewsandstews.wordpress.com *** Dark Brood Homebrewery *** @DarkBroodBrews ***
SERVING: Gryffon's Talon, Tavernacle
CONDITIONING: Ancient Queen Elderberry Mead
FERMENTING: Black Imp
SOUR PROGRAM: Misterioux Ayahel, Ommedubbel, Pucker Knight, Lambicus Minimus

Last edited by Yooper; 10-11-2011 at 01:55 PM. Reason: Inappropriate phrase removed
DarkBrood is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2011, 03:03 AM   #3
shafferpilot
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
shafferpilot's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 1,639
Liked 19 Times on 18 Posts
Likes Given: 6

Default

The easy answer is no... no you can't. For all the reasons listed by Darkbrood. Do it right the first time.

__________________

A great man knows that he knows NOTHING

shafferpilot is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2011, 03:28 AM   #4
brewskerdoo
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Just this side of deranged (06037), Quinnehtukqut
Posts: 72
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

well.....theoretically it will work, provided each of the two legs were from different sides of your powerpanel, meaning two 120v lines 180* out of phase = 240v.
if they were from the same side of the panel, you'd only still have 120v just double the current capacity. which would be good if you were after a 120v / 2500w heating element.
but....the safe bet is to spend the $50 on 20ft of 10GA cable and be confident you won't burn down your house just to make some beer.

__________________
brewskerdoo is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2011, 03:53 AM   #5
cl330b
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: , CA
Posts: 466
Liked 5 Times on 4 Posts

Default

Meter AC voltage across the two hot leads, does it read 240VAC or 0 VAC? This will tell you if the phasing is correct for a 240VAC circuit.

__________________
cl330b is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2011, 04:00 AM   #6
BBL_Brewer
HBT_SUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
BBL_Brewer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kokomo, IN
Posts: 3,695
Liked 419 Times on 292 Posts
Likes Given: 309

Default

It's not safe. Don't do it.

__________________
Slots Down Brewery
Stick with the plan....not the sparge.


Never Ending Liquid Yeast - How to Farm Yeast and Freeze it.

BBL_Brewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2011, 08:05 AM   #7
HHP
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Harker Heights, Texas
Posts: 374
Liked 6 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Code is written the way it is, for a reason.

That being said, just yesterday my wife asked me how to 'convert' a 110v outlet to 220v. After holding back the laughter i just told her that they needed to have an electrician do it, and that they might as well put the new outlet wherever they wanted it, because the electrician would have to run new wire.

Then I was discussing this at work with the guys as a 'funny story', and this retarded medic from Tennessee was like (country accent) 'well all you really need to do is run another 120v cable next to that first one, and hook up the hots together so there are two wires per hot, it will work just fine'. I was just like 'wow'.

I just felt those two anecdotes were semi applicable to this situation. Follow code, do things properly, and you wont burn your **** down.

__________________

Texas is awesome.

HHP is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2011, 08:10 AM   #8
MadViking
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Ferndale, Washington
Posts: 36
Default

Basically, that's what you do when you run the power from a 240v breaker, it's just two 120v breakers tied together at the handle. Like it was stated before, your two lines would have to be out of phase to work. 240v breakers naturally make the two lines out of phase by way of panel design.

Now, should you go ahead and do this? Speaking from experience as a 15 year journeyman electrician the answer would be "No". It wouldn't be up to code and it would be way too easy to get the lines crossed somewhere down the road. Wait if you have to to save the extra cash you need to do it right. Electricity is dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.

__________________
"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy"
Benjamin Franklin
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
Albert Einstein
"Stupid is as stupid does"
Forrest Gump
"Everyone has a plan-until they get punched in the face"
Mike Tyson
MadViking is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2011, 09:05 AM   #9
el_caro
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: , Australia
Posts: 604
Liked 33 Times on 28 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Two atoms were walking down the street one day, when one of them exclaimed, "Oh no - I've lost an electron!" "Are you sure?" the other one asked. "Yes," replied the first one, "I'm positive."

Ode to the Missing Surge Protector

If a transient hits a pocket on a socket on a port
And the bus is interrupted at a very last resort
And the access of the memory makes your floppy disc abort
Then the shocked packet pocket has an error to report.

If your cursor finds a menu item followed by a dash
And the double-clicking icon puts your window in the trash
And your data is corrupted 'cause the index doesn't hash
Then your situations' hopeless and your system's gonna crash.

If the label on the cable on the table at your house
Says the network is connected to the button on your mouse
But your packets want to tunnel to another protocol
That's repeatedly rejected by the printer down the hall
And your screen is all distorted by the side effects of gauss
So your icons in the window are as fickle as a grouse
Then you may as well reboot and go out with a bang
'cuz sure as I'm a poet, the sucker's gonna hang.

Remember : There are Old Electricians and there are Bold Electricians BUT there are no Old Bold Electricians.

__________________
el_caro is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 10-11-2011, 12:14 PM   #10
Surly
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Prairie Farm, WI
Posts: 149
Liked 2 Times on 2 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Sometimes we brewers get so excited about our hobby it is a good idea to relax and take a deep breath. When we are designing our equipment to be used around our homes it is important to ask ourselves, "If the house burned down, would there be any possibility the insurance company could wiggle out of a claim by showing I did something illegal or dumb?"

Depending on your answer, a hundred bucks to pay a professional to configure what we need may not be so expensive.

__________________
Surly is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply


Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Problems with my Volt Meter acefaser Electric Brewing 13 01-03-2012 03:01 PM
120 volt and CIP, will this work? LordUlrich Electric Brewing 4 08-16-2011 08:12 PM
If I do it again ... forget the AMP and Volt Meters! acefaser Electric Brewing 30 06-07-2011 12:57 PM
220 volt pumps adivito Electric Brewing 1 02-26-2011 02:06 AM
208 volt element Budzu Electric Brewing 14 11-06-2010 02:19 AM