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Old 05-19-2012, 03:50 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Bobby_M
I don't get the terminology "continuous batch sparge". If you mash with a reduced volume and then add additional water to the system to dilute the gravity, it's closer to no sparge. The only difference is that you've mashed at a lower ratio. Maybe something like "thick mash, no sparge" or "recirculating no sparge". I know it's not that important. In any case, this is pretty close to a single vessel BIAB no sparge system but getting more capacity by splitting between two vessels. You'd get the same result from two 10 gallon vessels or one 20 gallon (BIAB).
But doesn't it just give you a way to mash out?
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:55 PM   #22
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... In any case, this is pretty close to a single vessel BIAB no sparge system but getting more capacity by splitting between two vessels. You'd get the same result from two 10 gallon vessels or one 20 gallon (BIAB).
I agree, also no need to pull 20-30 lb bags out of the BK. Still will have some of the issues BIAB has with higher gravity beers. I plan to stick with the 3 vessel setup as I like to do 10 gallon batches of 1.060+ beers sometimes. And when I do RIS I go really high in gravity for 5 gallon batches.
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Old 05-19-2012, 03:55 PM   #23
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I am thinking of doin a two vessel system. I am currently doin biab and love it but since I just ordered a pump for a plate chiller I figured I should try brewing with my pump too.

My idea is to use a pid temp controlled e mlt on top that is gravity fed into a propane bk then use the pump to recirculate to reach mash out temp after. Any thoughts?

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Old 05-20-2012, 12:21 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
I don't get the terminology "continuous batch sparge". If you mash with a reduced volume and then add additional water to the system to dilute the gravity, it's closer to no sparge. The only difference is that you've mashed at a lower ratio. Maybe something like "thick mash, no sparge" or "recirculating no sparge". I know it's not that important. In any case, this is pretty close to a single vessel BIAB no sparge system but getting more capacity by splitting between two vessels. You'd get the same result from two 10 gallon vessels or one 20 gallon (BIAB).
I gave you the wrong idea. You don't mash with a reduced volume. I generally mash at 1.25 quarts/lb. I recirculate through a RIMS and then heat the sparge water separately.

As to whether this is different than BIAB, that's tougher. I think that when you begin the sparge, you are doing more than just lifting the grains out of your full volume of water. The process starts with fresh water rinsing the grains. Over time, the two vessels equalize. I would say that's different than just lifting the grain basket in a BIAB and starting to boil. But I've never done BIAB, so maybe I don't understand the process.

I think "continuous batch sparge" is reasonably accurate. You have a batch of sparge water you introduce continuously.
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Old 05-20-2012, 03:37 PM   #25
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I'm still trying to understand the process, could someone please tell me if this is correct.

mash as usual for your one hour or whatever recipe calls for. Then, instead of running off then sparging you add your sparge water and recirculate

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Old 05-20-2012, 04:11 PM   #26
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To me, what makes a process "no sparge" is the fact that your total derived preboil wort is derived from a single homogeneous runoff (I know BIAB wort isn't run off but the definition still holds).

A fly sparge has the lauter process where wort runs off at high concentration and slowly gets lower and lower.

A batch sparge has discrete runoffs with concentrations that start high and get lower and lower with each addition of sparge water and runoff. This counts if you run off twice or three times or more.

I don't care how many vessels you use, if you use a voile bag, etc.... if the wort is all the same gravity when it comes out of the tun, or when you remove the grain bag, it's a no sparge process.

The only benefit to holding a mash at a reduced liquid volume is so that you can protect against pH swings by keeping a reasonable buffer in less than optimal water chemistry.

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Old 05-20-2012, 04:45 PM   #27
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I guess the first part of your argument answers my ? Only one runoff. But I guess it could still be considered a sparge somewhat BC it is still introducing water at the end of the mash so it isn't instantly homogenous like it would be when you just lift a bag out?

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Old 05-20-2012, 08:00 PM   #28
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It's the recirculation part the makes it homogeneous. If you laid all the water on top carefully and slowly drained it, that would be a fly sparge.

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Old 05-20-2012, 08:33 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobby_M View Post
.... if the wort is all the same gravity when it comes out of the tun, or when you remove the grain bag, it's a no sparge process.
Thank-you Bobby. Finally a simple definition that I think we all can agree on.
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Old 05-20-2012, 11:38 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by kjones View Post
I'm still trying to understand the process, could someone please tell me if this is correct.

mash as usual for your one hour or whatever recipe calls for. Then, instead of running off then sparging you add your sparge water and recirculate
KJ - Think of it this way (your BK and HLT are combined as one)...
1 - Heat the initial mash-in volume OR total brewing volume (mash in and sparge) to mash-in temps, we'll say 153 deg in your HLT/BK.
2 - Pump or drain (depending if the MLT or HLT/BK is above) the mash-in volume into the MLT. Mix grains and mash for a period of time.
3 - Fill the HLT/BK to the appropriate volume if you didn't heat it all in the first step. Heat it to Mash-out/sparge temps.
4 - Depending on the configuration, which is on top, start to recirculate the total volume of water/wort between the two vessels. Continue until sparge temps are met.

Variations: (note times are subject an only for example purposes)
- You could, at step 4, drain the MLT into a temp vessel, and then either batch (close the valve add sparge water, stir and let the sparge sit for 20 mins per sparge) or fly (slowly drain/pump sparge water into the MLT for 60-ish mins, draining into your temp vessel) sparge. Once either of the sparge steps are complete, the wort will need to be transferred back to the HLT/BK for boiling.

The above is the process I am going to, haven't decided on which should go on top, MLT or HLT/BK though. Mine will be electric though.
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