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Old 06-26-2012, 03:13 AM   #1
ironmountainbrew
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Default 2 PID 50a Control Panel Design Check

I'm hoping to get feedback on the layout and functions of my control panel. My plan is to be able to run 2 - 5500 watt elements along with two pumps at the same time. I want to power on the PIDs with the main power switch.
The PIDs I'm using have built-in timers, so I'm including a reset button for each.

Here's a rundown of the panel switches and LEDs

  • 22mm LED - [1 - green (power), 1 - red (alarm), 2 - blue (pumps)]
  • 22 mm Flashing Buzzer
  • 22 mm LED Push button Switch - [2 - yellow (elements)]
  • Push button Switch, Momentary - [2 - red (PID Alarm Reset)]
  • Emergency Stop locking push button
  • 2-Way Switches [ 2 - pumps, 1 - alarm]
  • Key toggle Switch (panel on/off)
Please let me know if I'm missing anything obvious.

Also, It would be great if someone happened to have a wiring diagram that fit this build.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:40 PM   #2
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Ironmountain,

Your idea looks great. Running both 240v 5500w elements at the same time along with pumps, etc, you'll be right near the top of your 50 amps.

Regarding your PIDs and alarms. You have timer reset buttons for each PID, but only one alarm. Is the alarm common for both PIDs? You also have an alarm on/off. Is the objective to disable the alarm? Why? You didn't say which PIDs you have, but if it's the Auber 2451 with the built in timer, when you reset the timer it stops the alarm.

I completed a build similar to yours a couple of months ago. The only difference in my setup is I have an extra PID used for my RIMs tube and I use illuminated push button switches instead of toggle switches with indicators.

P-J has created many schematics for us to use. Reach out to him for assistance there.
This one is close for your system. It does not have the timer buttons on the PID.


Check out the link in my signature for my build. I think the plans are in there too.

Good luck!

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Old 06-26-2012, 02:52 PM   #3
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stlbeer,

Thanks for the feedback.

The alarm part of the build is the only thing that is confusing me. I'm not sure the alarm on/off is necessary, but have seen it in similar builds. (I guess I would always want the alarms I set to trigger.) I assumed the reset on the timer would turn the alarm off, but wasn't sure about resetting the alarms triggered on temp. I think a common alarm for both PIDs would work just fine, but like the idea of having the two reset buttons. I'm planning on using the Auber 2451 PID with the built in timer. Here's the list of items I would like tied to the alarm. 1) HLT strike/sparge temp reached 2) Mash rest times 3) Boil additions 4) Boil complete

BTW: After using the 2451 PIDs, do you recommend using them for the timer, or would you opt for a separate timer? How are they as far as being able to monitor your BK times?

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Old 06-26-2012, 03:23 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironmountainbrew View Post
The alarm part of the build is the only thing that is confusing me. I'm not sure the alarm on/off is necessary, but have seen it in similar builds. (I guess I would always want the alarms I set to trigger.) I assumed the reset on the timer would turn the alarm off, but wasn't sure about resetting the alarms triggered on temp. I think a common alarm for both PIDs would work just fine, but like the idea of having the two reset buttons. I'm planning on using the Auber 2451 PID with the built in timer. Here's the list of items I would like tied to the alarm. 1) HLT strike/sparge temp reached 2) Mash rest times 3) Boil additions 4) Boil complete
The reset on the timer does turn off the alarm, but I only use them or timer, not temp. I use them for mash rest times, boil additions, and boil complete. I suggest downloading the SWA-2451 manual from Auber and closely reading the section on the timer and alarms. It is configurable in many ways and you need to decide what you want to do with the available options.


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Originally Posted by ironmountainbrew View Post
BTW: After using the 2451 PIDs, do you recommend using them for the timer, or would you opt for a separate timer? How are they as far as being able to monitor your BK times?
I like using the integrated timer. I have 2 of them, one for my RIMS and one for the BK,though I really only need 1 since the timer function is disabled when the PID is put in manual mode. Manual mode is used when the wort starts to boil. I'll reduce the percentage of power on to about 65%.

I have the standard Auber SYL-2352 for my HLT and I'm considering switching the BK and HLT PID's so I can then use the timer on the HLT PID to time the boil. This way I can accomplish back to back brews - having the RIMS time the second mash and the HLT timer to time the boil additions/boil.
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:32 PM   #5
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I'm seeking a wiring diagram for the following two PID + Timer 50amp build

PID: Auber SYL-2352
Timer: Auber ASL-51

My plan is to follow P-J's advice and use a SPA panel for the main power feed. I want the PIDS and timer powered on by the main power switch. The elements are switched on by an illuminated push buttons and can both be powered at the same time. The single alarm is activated by either one of the PID’s temp alarms, or the timer and can be turned off by either one of the temp alarm switches or the timer's momentary push button switch. I also like the idea of having an E-Stop on the panel.

I would like to use a 5500watt element in the BK and the HLT, but I'm wondering if this might cut things close, so perhaps one 5500watt element and one 4500watt element.

I'm nearly ready to go with the exception of one or two more components and a wiring diagram that fits the build. Everything is DIN mounted with the exception of the SSR's.

If anyone sees any obvious flaws in my layout, or has a wiring diagram that fits the build I would greatly appreciate the feedback.

Sincerely,
Ryan...

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Old 07-20-2012, 08:35 PM   #6
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The first step in getting what you want is knowing what you want.

Your layout looks really nice. I'm sure P-J has a schematic to go with that.

BTW - here's some regarding DIN mounted contactors. I got 3 from this guy.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f16/contactors-e-brew-heating-elements-273489/index10.html#post4265354

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Old 07-21-2012, 05:49 PM   #7
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thanks stlbeer.

I think I will reach out to P-J to see if he has anything. Your schematic is really close to what I'm doing. I just need to figure out the timer and alarm part. I've been browsing post here for months now to get an idea of what I want and how to do it and of course have realized that P-J is the master of electricity. His schematics are easy to follow and his advice on components and safety measures are priceless. I just haven't run across a schematic that fits my build exactly and I'm too dumb to figure it out on my own.

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Old 07-23-2012, 10:39 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironmountainbrew View Post
thanks stlbeer.

I think I will reach out to P-J to see if he has anything. Your schematic is really close to what I'm doing. I just need to figure out the timer and alarm part. I've been browsing post here for months now to get an idea of what I want and how to do it and of course have realized that P-J is the master of electricity. His schematics are easy to follow and his advice on components and safety measures are priceless. I just haven't run across a schematic that fits my build exactly and I'm too dumb to figure it out on my own.
I subscribed to this thread a while ago & your ideas sparked my interest.

I've developed a diagram that 'almost' fits your desired plan. Your plan (in post #5) is rather complex and it requires a lot of additional components that would not normally be required.

The one item of major concern is the "Power On/Off" switch. This adds a lot of complexity to the design with multiple contactors involved to implement it.

The other is the managment of the alarm set up. That requires a lot of additional components and a design that is very difficult to implement (for me). I'm close but not anywhere near your plan in post #5.

Oh well... It was an interesting adventure for me anyway. I've been messing with it since about 5 this morning.

Wishing you the best in the planning of your build.

P-J
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:40 AM   #9
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To get amps, divide power in watts by voltage. 11000 watts will take 45 amps at 240V, 10000 will take 41.5, and 9000 will take 37.5. I would shy away from 11000 watts on a 50 amp circuit. Also, I would keep it on 1 circuit, not 3 as shown above. You don't want to have 3 power cords going to your panel!

I built almost the same panel as you minus the alarms. Not that I know the difference, but I don't miss them.

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Old 07-24-2012, 08:14 AM   #10
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What are you drawing the panels in? I would love to have that software if I dont have it already. Wiring those panel is actually easier than it appears at first. Just gotta set up the basic frame work in and out, then add in the leds and the nice to haves. I'm still learning basic (very basic) electronics, but with the PID's it is much easier to build a panel and control system. Thanks for the good lookin panel pics!!! Gave me some ideas on how I want mine laid out when the time comes. I'm still gathering parts and learning how to make usefull and safe circuits.
Have a great brew week!!!!
Wheelchair Bob

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