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Old 03-17-2013, 08:20 PM   #1
Jeepinfool86
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Default 10000w 220v dimmer for boil kettle

I found this voltage regulator on ebay. it says its a 10000w 220v. I was wondering if it would work well for my electric boil kettle. Im using have a 5500w heating element.
Thanks

heres the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/10000W-220v-...70962577367%26

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Old 03-17-2013, 09:00 PM   #2
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I bought one of these to test before designing our own because it would have been easier to load these $20.00 assemblies into housings than to manufacture our controllers.

The dimmer worked great but the heat sink got hot and I believe the heat sink is under sized for a 4500 or 5500 watt heating element without some sort of forced air cooling. Set one up with a small fan and it should work great.

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Old 03-18-2013, 05:18 PM   #3
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I find it amazing that the traces on that board can handle ~45 amps..... Or so they say.

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Old 03-18-2013, 07:05 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan_george View Post
I find it amazing that the traces on that board can handle ~45 amps..... Or so they say.
I thought the same thing, but then I realized that there isn't really anything in the pics to establish scale.

Like... maybe that knob is 6" in diameter.
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Old 03-18-2013, 08:12 PM   #5
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Here's a picture of the 10kW dimmer next to a 3.8kW dimmer and a computer fan. It looks pretty hefty.



The traces on the back look reasonably chunky to me. I'm not sure what gauge wire you can get in the terminals.

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Old 03-19-2013, 12:59 PM   #6
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Well that is bigger than the Ebay pictures led me to believe! Walker was pretty close.

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Old 03-19-2013, 01:08 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Well that is bigger than the Ebay pictures led me to believe! Walker was pretty close.
Actually... I was going to ask what size the fan was.

20mm?
80mm?
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Old 03-19-2013, 03:18 PM   #8
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Has anyone ever tried to actually control 3, 5, or 10kW with these? Are the numbers inflated perhaps, just like "1000W sound amps" are?

You need very sizable wiring to conduct 40-50A. Even the MOSFET ICs look smallish for that purpose.

Why not use a PID?

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Old 03-19-2013, 04:14 PM   #9
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Why not use a PID?
I think people are just looking for cost optimized solutions with simplistic features. A manual mode PID and SSR will certainly work to control a boil, but will cost at least twice as much and provides more than they really need. a PWM with an SSR is closer in cost to this thing and gives the same functionality, though.
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Old 03-19-2013, 04:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
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Actually... I was going to ask what size the fan was.

20mm?
80mm?
I'm pretty sure it's a 50mm fan. The ebay ad says the 10 kW dimmer module is 86 x 49 x 54mm. The heat sink must be about 50mm x 75mm with 20mm fins. Let's do the maths. We'll plug some numbers into a heatsink design calculator.

Power dissipated 41.7W (assume triac has voltage drop of 1.0 V @ 10000 / 240 = 41.7 A)
Max ambient temperature 25 °C
Max junction temperature 125 °C
Thermal Resistance - Junction to Case 0.6 °C/Watt (based on BTA40 triac data sheet)

=> Calculated thermal resistance required of heatsink = 0.8 °C/W or lower.

Now let's calculate the thermal resistance of the heatsink under forced convection (i.e. fan blowing on heatsink) using another calculator.

Volumetric Flow Rate 0.0075 m^3/s (50mm PC fan @ 12 V)
Number of Fins 10
Fin Width 0.002 m
Fin Length 0.05 m
Fin Height 0.02 m
Sink Width 0.075 m
Fin Thermal Conductivity 215 W/m·°K (Aluminium @ 125 °C)

=> Calculated thermal resistance of heatsink = 0.73 °C/W

which is just below the required limit of 0.8 °C/W. So at 10 kW with a 50 mm PC fan blowing on it continuously the heatsink is just barely OK to keep the triac below its rated temperature of 125 °C. So the heatsink is sized adequately to do its job - it's just going to get very very hot doing it.

Going back to the first calculator, if we plug in the numbers for one 5500 W element (need to dissipate 21.9 W), it turns out that the heatsink is adequate to hold the triac at 78 °C. So even with a fan on it the heatsink will still get hot to the touch running one element, and should not contact e.g. the exterior of a PVC enclosure.

I think it's fair to say that 10 kW is right on the limit of what this dimmer is usable for, but 5.5 kW is probably OK with suitable care and attention. Either way you'll need a fan on the heatsink and a mesh guard or something around to keep your fingers from getting burned.
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