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Old 07-10-2012, 03:49 PM   #1
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Default 1 PID Switchable for 2 5500W Elements

I'm not sure if this has been covered here or not, have searched and come close but no cigar just yet.

I have a rough version of my system laid out and built...Auber PID, heatsink & 40A SSR...The system consists of an HLT and a BK Keggles with 5500W elements in each (30 Amp @ 240V, thus the one element firing at a time). I was originally going to have one PID controlling one SSR to a single outlet firing one element at a time...this would entail me physically switching the plugs from the HLT to BK or vice versa, depending on which I was using.

Is there a way I could control, via a switch, which element would get power without me having to plug & unplug from a single receptacle? That would be one PID firing an SSR and I assume a switch/contactor(s) setup AFTER the SSR, or maybe some other configuration. This way I may be able to hard wire the elements into the control panel or at least have them plugged in all the time.

Anyone have any ideas if this is feasible or how I can go about doing this? It may have already been outlined here...some of P-J's diagrams that I've found were so close but missing that one switchable component I'm lookin for. If you need any other specifics please let me know...Thanks.

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Old 07-10-2012, 04:21 PM   #2
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Just use two SSR's and a simple toggle switch to switch the SSR output of the PID between the SSR for each element.

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Old 07-10-2012, 04:32 PM   #3
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That wouldn't necessarily isolate the elements from getting power though, in the event where something went wrong and there was a failure somewhere I would potentially have loads to both SSR's & elements. I'm thinking along the lines of a 3-way switch to two (2) separate contactors but I can't envision if this would be appropriate or not or even doable.

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Old 07-10-2012, 04:39 PM   #4
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I do exactly what you are looking for: 1 PID, a simple 3-position switch to select HLT-nothing-BK (I wanted to make sure that it was definately break-before-make). One nifty thing with my setup is that this switch ALSO switches the temp sensor input that goes back to the PID. So, when you use the switch to select the element, you are also selecting which thermocouple is connected to the PID.

Why measure temp in the BK? Good to know while chilling.

I've used this system on about 75 batches now. It does work fine. It can be done with less SSRs, but I like it this way.

I also have a 30A Double pole switch to turn off all the power to both elements just to make damned sure.

Schematic is in the thread. PM me with questions, or just ask them in that thread.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/240...l-pics-184296/

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Old 07-10-2012, 04:57 PM   #5
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I built pretty much what you are looking for last year. 1 PID and 1 SSR controlling 2 elements via a switch. I used two contactors to control which element was receiving the power - the switch triggers the contactors. I only have the temperature sensor in the HLT - when powering the boil kettle I'd use the PID in manual mode, and I have a thermometer built into my boil kettle already so I don't need a sensor for that. I used a P-J diagram, but made a few changes to it -you can check out my build here:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/my-...-build-281085/

Recently I've added in a PWM circuit to control the boil kettle, so I only use the PID for controlling HLT temps now, but the way it was originally built matches your needs pretty well.

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Old 07-10-2012, 05:18 PM   #6
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I'd recommend making your HLT and BK identical. If one goes down for any reason, you could conceivably still brew with just the other (and a mash tun of course). At least that's my "Plan B".

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Old 07-10-2012, 05:55 PM   #7
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You guys ROCK! I do want to get away from toggle switches though...my problem is that I don't understand the wiring or function of the blocks. I need to have them in my hand and play to figure them out...

Seriously though...HBT is by far the most valuable resource for anything brewing related...ANYTHING!

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Old 07-10-2012, 06:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
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You guys ROCK! I do want to get away from toggle switches though...my problem is that I don't understand the wiring or function of the blocks. I need to have them in my hand and play to figure them out...

Seriously though...HBT is by far the most valuable resource for anything brewing related...ANYTHING!
The only switch on my panel that uses blocks is the e-stop switch - I'd never used a switch with blocks before either, but when I got the switch it was pretty easy to figure out. You can get them with NO (normally open) or NC (normally closed) blocks, and by adding additional blocks to the switch you are essentially adding poles to the switch (allows you to switch more things on and off with the same switch).
Auberins carries some selector switches now - one of them is an ON-OFF-ON selector that should work in a system like I built in place of the DPDT toggle switch. P-J or someone else could help with specific wiring questions. Toggles do work well too, but they are not as cool looking.
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Old 07-10-2012, 06:46 PM   #9
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This is this switch..Its number one on diagram..
Theirs another diagram with E-STOP..but cant seem to find it.
I buildt it and it works..


http://www.drillspot.com/products/47..._toggle_switch


http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/sim...-1-pid-221403/

auberin-wiring1-a4-4500w-30b.jpg  
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Old 07-10-2012, 06:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-R View Post
This is this switch..Its number one on diagram..
Theirs another diagram with E-STOP..but cant seem to find it.
I like this setup. If I built mine again, I'd probably go with something very similar.

The only drawback is that the thermocouple doesn't get switched. I'd probably still have a switch for that. (although I don't even look at that temp anymore now that I have a dial thermometer on the output of my plate chiller).

And, I'd probably just use a 2-position selector switch, then have a separate SPST switch to kill all the power to the elements. I realize the center position of the selector does that, but it would be too easy to accidentally switch that and kill a dry element.
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