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Old 02-18-2013, 03:21 PM   #11
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I agree with wadefisher. Keep it as simple as possible without compromising safety. I modified my control panel multiple times over several years. I increased complexity only to make it safer.
Original build:

Current version:

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Old 02-18-2013, 04:23 PM   #12
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We have our kettle already, as well as our Fermenting Vessels.
Off topic a bit, but what are you using for fermenters?
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Old 02-18-2013, 06:32 PM   #13
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Off topic a bit, but what are you using for fermenters?
40g blue poly drums with a food grade liner. Lids are fitted with a thermowell, which is attached to our 2 stage thermostat.

Ferment beer, transfer with diaphragm pump, lift liner out, cut corner off, rinse yeast, throw liner away.

Local brewpub is using this method, without any issues. Esters/Fusels are kept in check. Fermenting at 66-68F.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:38 PM   #14
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I apologise if I came off as being a naysayer, as that was not my intention. The point I was trying to make in my post is that if you are going to build something yourself, it does not hurt for your plans to be examined by your local inspector before you build it. Some people view inspectors with disdain, when really they can be a good resource if they are involved early in the process before you spend your money. When I looked at brewmations site, it said that their commercial panels are UL listed. I assumed that was what you were looking at for your 55 gallon system at that price. My mistake.

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Old 02-19-2013, 03:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_brew View Post
40g blue poly drums with a food grade liner. Lids are fitted with a thermowell, which is attached to our 2 stage thermostat.

Ferment beer, transfer with diaphragm pump, lift liner out, cut corner off, rinse yeast, throw liner away.

Local brewpub is using this method, without any issues. Esters/Fusels are kept in check. Fermenting at 66-68F.
What do liners set you back? Can you recycle them? Seems like a lot of plastic into the landfill.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:44 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by captain_brew View Post
Hello Everyone.

My partner and I are opening up a Brewpub in a small city.
We currently have:
3) 55g Blichmann Kettles.

We've been debating the merits of going Electric and have (for the most part) decided using electricity is more efficient.

Not too long ago I built a 2.5g E-BIAB setup using one of P-J's wiring diagrams, I'm very comfortable following a schematic, just not coming up with one.

We have a 200A panel 3-phase power.

Looking to make an E-HERMS System. With the capabilities of heating both the HLT and BK simultaneously.

We are also looking at potentially growing into Blichmann's 1bbl kettle "extensions" which is basically a bottomless kettle that snaps onto the existing 55g kettles to give a gross capacity of 100g.

I've looked at Theelectricbrewery.com and sent Kal an email/scoured forum for answers to my issue. Unfortunately, he was unable to provide me with a solution.

I've also contacted brewmation.com and their panel seemed a little on the pricey side @ ~$5,000, where as Kals is at $2,200.

So if you could help a brewing brother out I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions/diagrams!

Requirements:
Must run off of a 200A panel.
12-18KW power in HLT and BK
3 PID for HLT, MLT, and BK


Thoughts? Suggestions?
captain_brew,

I thought I would chime in with something that might help you in your adventure. Also, the diagram can be made as 2 or 3 seperate controllers so that each could be placed close to & for its specific tank. This would make it easier to manage the wiring and placement of the controllers. The element configurations are set up in 'Delta' configurations.

As always, click on the image to see (and save) a full scale drawing that is printable on large paper sheets. (News Print - 16.5” X 22.75”)



I hope this is of some help to you.

P-J

Edit: I replaced the diagram as I have added control switches for the HLT and BOIL. I've also eliminated the 3rd pump outlet. (2/22/13)
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:55 PM   #17
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I just completed a diagram similar to the one above that has 6000W elements placed for a total 18,000W in each kettle. It also required a swap out of the SSRs to higher rated units.

If interested.

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Old 02-20-2013, 01:46 PM   #18
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Ahhh!!! I've summoned the rare P-J!! Welcome to my thread! Thanks so much for your time and effort putting this together.

We're only going to use 2 pumps, so I can omit that switch/plug easy enough. When you flip the switch for the PID controller's though, They're all going to turn on. What prevents a dry-fire?

I'm assuming the PID Power you have now is sort of a "master" power to the panel.
Can I lay 2 other switches in there, to turn on each Kettle by itself? I don't necessarily want the HLT heating while the BK is going and vice versa.


Also just to clarify. With this configuration, I can run BOTH kettles simultaneously? (I know this sounds opposite of what I stated in the paragraph before, It's just a measure of control)

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Old 02-20-2013, 01:51 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PLOVE View Post
What do liners set you back? Can you recycle them? Seems like a lot of plastic into the landfill.
http://www.ba-industrial.com/asccust...categoryid=898

Liners are available there. They're a low-density polyethylene. I don't see why they're not at the least recyclable. I think LDPE is a #2 plastic.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:50 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captain_brew View Post
Ahhh!!! I've summoned the rare P-J!! Welcome to my thread! Thanks so much for your time and effort putting this together.

We're only going to use 2 pumps, so I can omit that switch/plug easy enough. When you flip the switch for the PID controller's though, They're all going to turn on. What prevents a dry-fire?

I'm assuming the PID Power you have now is sort of a "master" power to the panel.
Can I lay 2 other switches in there, to turn on each Kettle by itself? I don't necessarily want the HLT heating while the BK is going and vice versa.


Also just to clarify. With this configuration, I can run BOTH kettles simultaneously? (I know this sounds opposite of what I stated in the paragraph before, It's just a measure of control)
I finished the 6000w element version (total 0f 18,000w per kettle) and included the seperate control switches (SW 4 & 5) that you wanted for the HLT & BOIL. These 2 switches can prevent the elements from being turned on but allow the PIDs to be set up and adjusted as needed.

I also eliminated the 3rd pump set up.

As always, click on the image to see (and save) a full scale drawing that is printable on large paper sheets. (News Print - 16.5” X 22.75”)



Hope this helps.

Note: The power calc for -

3 Phase Delta:

Each leg will see 1.73 of the equivalent single phase load of each element.
So, with 240v and 6000w elements the math is thus...
A single 6000w element on 240V draws 25A
With the 3 phase setup and 3 - 6000w elements wired in Delta - each phase will draw:
6000/240*1.73 = 43.25 amps per phase at 240v.
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