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Old 07-05-2012, 10:28 PM   #11
kombuchakamp
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Originally Posted by onipar View Post
Yeah, like I said, I'm not saying I don't believe you (or the people who have noted differences), but I'm one of those "show me the facts" sort of people, for better or worse.
I can understand that - but in this case, the proof is in the pudding. No test from a lab could tell you if the Kombucha is better, only your tongue. Also the people who write in over and over to tell me how they've been brewing for years and had no idea Kombucha could taste so good. I really think a lot of people are drinking an imbalanced drink and have the wrong idea about how it should really brew and taste.

The difference from your comparison is that the bottled Kombucha on the shelf (unless it says "over 21 only") has literally been altered and when we talk about a living culture in symbiosis and we talk about Kombucha as a tonic that requires a certain amount of alcohol and a certain mix of acids, etc to thrive and be in balance, then we are really talking about a different drink. Better to buy and drink that than a soda of course! But if you're making it at home, nothing compares to a real culture.

We're doing our best to clear up the misinformation out there. Our goal is to get people to brew for a lifetime and we try to provide all the tools for success. Anyway, nice chatting.
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Old 07-06-2012, 01:33 AM   #12
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I can understand that - but in this case, the proof is in the pudding. ...
A little research supports what you've been saying (from http://www.organicprocessing.com/opj...terprise.htm):

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To ensure that the beverage would be compliant to FDA guidelines and available to all, the company reformulated its original line to create a lighter version—GT’s Enlightened Kombucha. While at first Dave was concerned that reformulating would sacrifice the natural integrity of the beverage or compromise the company’s values, it was able to reformulate with only subtle changes. The new line, introduced in the fall of 2010, has the same probiotics and nutrients as the original kombucha line and is still unpasteurized or “raw.” One of the main differences is that it has a shorter shelf life to ensure that the product stays within the FDA-mandated .5 percent alcohol limit. Much tighter controls are now in place as well to prevent “temperature abuse.” Some strains of certain probiotics known to produce more alcohol were also reduced and the product has just a little less “bite” than the original version.
My emphasis.

So according to that article, there are in fact some probiotics that were reduced, resulting in a slightly different taste.

Guess it's time to order a SCOBY.
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Old 07-06-2012, 07:41 PM   #13
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Even without the quote from GT (and we have spoken with him ourselves about this topic: MOD EDIT) logic would lead one to wonder: if the reformulated version is not different, why do they bother to keep making the original? The taste is the proof. I appreciate your research! If you're interested, here's the article we wrote for BevNet about the recall: MOD EDIT

Happy Brewing! Would love to hear more about your experience.

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Old 07-06-2012, 09:12 PM   #14
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Thanks for the extra links; I missed those. Oh, and absolutely. I apologize if I came off as simply being contrary at first, I'm just very new to Kombucha and wasn't even aware of the reformulation or that they had a "classic" counterpart.

I do youtube videos for my brewing, so once I get the SCOBY and have a side by side prepared, I'll probably do a video on it and link to it here.

Cheers!

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Old 07-20-2012, 02:17 AM   #15
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This is hard to read with out the links

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Old 07-20-2012, 03:15 AM   #16
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This is hard to read with out the links
Oh, yeah it looks like the mods edited KombuchaKamp's links, most likely because that site (though very informative) sells stuff. I didn't want to devolve the conservation by saying anything, but the initial reason I was so skeptical of the claims being made was precisely for that reason: What KombuchaKamp was saying would cause people to buy their product rather than grow their own SCOBY.

Not long after posting here, I had corresponded with a rep at GT (initially just to find out when the "classic" flavor would be available in PA), but while on the phone I asked about the reformulation, and they told me it's the same SCOBY with a different brewing "process." The rep also said that it has the same amount of probiotics.

In fact, even after revisiting the quote I posted above, I noticed they said pretty much the same thing in the article I posted:

Quote:
The new line, introduced in the fall of 2010, has the same probiotics and nutrients as the original kombucha line and is still unpasteurized or “raw.” One of the main differences is that it has a shorter shelf life to ensure that the product stays within the FDA-mandated .5 percent alcohol limit. Much tighter controls are now in place as well to prevent “temperature abuse.” Some strains of certain probiotics known to produce more alcohol were also reduced and the product has just a little less “bite” than the original version.
They do later say something about "reduced" probiotics, but one would deduce that if the strains are present at all, further open air brewing would certainly increase those numbers.

Take it for what it's worth. There appears to be plenty of wiggle room for interpretation of the information that's available out there.

If you're interested in seeing the link they originally posted, most of it can be found on the Kombucha Kamp website on their blog section I think.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:06 PM   #17
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I started a SCOBY from a bottle of KTs original raw Kombucha. The KT I get from that SCOBY is milder and tastes a little watered down, even several generations later, than the stuff I'm getting from the two inherited SCOBYs I use.

I think that lends credence to the discussions of evolution of the ratios of microbes over time. I tend to let my cultures over-ferment, and that would likely increase the ratio of acid-tolerant and acid-producing microbes, leading to the extra "bite" in the batches from older SCOBYs.

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Old 07-20-2012, 07:26 PM   #18
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I started a SCOBY from a bottle of KTs original raw Kombucha. The KT I get from that SCOBY is milder and tastes a little watered down, even several generations later, than the stuff I'm getting from the two inherited SCOBYs I use.

I think that lends credence to the discussions of evolution of the ratios of microbes over time. I tend to let my cultures over-ferment, and that would likely increase the ratio of acid-tolerant and acid-producing microbes, leading to the extra "bite" in the batches from older SCOBYs.
So do you find that over time the SCOBYS change? The flavor of the resulting Kombucha changes too? Thanks!
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Old 07-24-2012, 05:28 PM   #19
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"Last edited by Yuri_Rage; 07-10-2012 at 02:29 AM. Reason: advertising" Advertising? Linking to an interview with GT himself that we conducted, as well as a major beverage industry publication's front page story about the Kombucha recall is advertising? Wow.

so disappointing that the mods don't trust people here to be able to make their own decisions. the links we provided were informational, and only one even went to our site, the others went to an independent blogger and the other to the site BevNet which I wrote an article for but I do not own, they are a huge, very trusted operation in the beverage biz. anyway, it appears we won't be able to provide any backup but as you can see above in CHERRYLinND's post, there is validity to our statements. Her results have been repeated over and over (including in the blogger link we had inserted). As we said above, the proof is in the pudding. We receive e-mails all the time from people who buy a SCOBY and write in to say "I've been brewing Kombucha for (months, years, whatever) and it never tasted this good before. I always thought a culture was a culture." So we know it's true because we are the ones selling the cultures and getting the feedback. We did not even put links in our signature which presumably could go directly to our products and say anything we want. So clearly we came here to contribute information, not advertise. It is ironic that experts in a subject cannot be trusted because they sell that product. It used to be that knowledge was considered valuable, but we are so cynical now that nobody can be trusted.

Just like you can make a high quality hamburger from grass fed beef and freshly made cheese or you can buy a McDonald's cheeseburger, you can make high quality Kombucha or low quality Kombucha. It seems absurd to us to doubt that the quality of the SCOBY (or the tea, or the sugar, or the water, or the brewing environment) would change the quality of the resulting drink.

Anyway, we're not trying to upset anyone or trick anyone or break any rules. But dipping our toes into this community sure has gotten off to a rocky start. Not fun.

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Old 07-30-2012, 07:19 AM   #20
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I have never taken any initiative for Kombucha but want to try out atleast once. Thanks for sharing this method

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