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Old 07-20-2012, 12:09 AM   #11
AntX
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Thanks for the Congratulations. Now how about you share some links to where you've gathered this information so we can all become more enlightened? I'd like to see more credible research papers on KT, as last I looked it seemed quite lacking.
I didn't mean to sound condescending, so I appologize for that.

Z. Kombuchaensis is new to me.... here's an abstract of a study done by australians in 2004:

"Abstract

Kombucha is a traditional fermentation of sweetened tea, involving a symbiosis of yeast species and acetic acid bacteria. Despite reports of different yeast species being associated with the fermentation, little is known of the quantitative ecology of yeasts in Kombucha. Using oxytetracycline-supplemented malt extract agar, yeasts were isolated from four commercially available Kombucha products and identified using conventional biochemical and physiological tests. During the fermentation of each of the four products, yeasts were enumerated from both the cellulosic pellicle and liquor of the Kombucha. The number and diversity of species varied between products, but included Brettanomyces bruxellensis, Candida stellata, Schizosaccharomyces pombe, Torulaspora delbrueckii and Zygosaccharomyces bailii. While these yeast species are known to occur in Kombucha, the enumeration of each species present throughout fermentation of each of the four Kombucha cultures demonstrated for the first time the dynamic nature of the yeast ecology. Kombucha fermentation is, in general, initiated by osmotolerant species, succeeded and ultimately dominated by acid-tolerant species."

And here's a very insightful analysis by the University of Cornell:

http://www.happyherbalist.com/analys...kt_cornell.htm

Also, don't feel averted to experiment with kombucha or any other source of (unharmful) bacteria, just because I sounded like an asshole. I did just what you did, I even tried kombucha in coffee, apple juice, and even grain wort.

But after a while, my scobys all did the same thing: they mutated.

The medium didn't contain the same strains as they used to, obviously, because the conditions changed.

Acidity, sugar types, the presence of oils, etc all had an effect: organisms that were previously "symbiotic" turned to being competing for resources.

It just happens that the apple vinegar sitting on my counter is made by what "used to be" a very usual-looking scoby, but not anymore.
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Old 07-20-2012, 12:32 AM   #12
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Interesting reads. I've dabbled on the HH site a few times. Mostly for the KT alcohol/wine documentation.

Have you tried unhopped malt extracts? I have some Briess amber malt that I was thinking of using with a bottle of GTs and a tea blend.

I've been using white refined sugar in my KT for about three years and it seems to be sufficient. At least I certainly have noticed the mood softening affect that it has on me if I drink it daily for at least two months.

Thanks for the apology. I'm well seasoned to dance with various internet persona. So it was no biggie

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Old 07-20-2012, 02:13 AM   #13
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I've been using white refined sugar in my KT for about three years and it seems to be sufficient. At least I certainly have noticed the mood softening affect that it has on me if I drink it daily for at least two months.
AntX, thanks for the sources, very informative!

Poncho (and AntX), I also have only used white sugar. I was wondering, did you notice any differences if using turbinado sugar (if you used it)? I was thinking of switching to turbinado to get off processed sugar, but if there's no benefit, I'd rather save the money, (Sorry if it's a bit off topic)

And no, I haven't used malt extract.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:40 AM   #14
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I can't answer that, but I feel that the use of refined sugar is relatively harmless as a lot of it is metabolized and converted. I do brush my teeth immediately after drinking the KT. I get the feeling that the acids are a bit harsh on the teeth.

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Old 07-23-2012, 08:15 AM   #15
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In spite of what you think, Kombucha is not "merely an acetobacter of no particular importance" or "yeasts of a common airborne variety".

It's a symbiotic colony.

First, the yeast. It can be either Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Brettanomyces bruxellensis, Candida stellata, Schizosaccharomyces pombe, Torulaspora delbrueckii, or Zygosaccharomyces bailii.

Then comes Gluconacetobacter xylinus. That bacteria has to be the predominant one, as it is responsible for transforming alcool to acetic acid, AND it's responsible for creating the cellulose layer that grows on top, which we all call the "mother".

Now, congratulations, you just made vinegar. Unfortunatelly, you cannot call it "Kombucha" anymore.
What's the difference between a SCOBY and a MOV?

What are the main species of yeast and bacteria used to make vinegar? Do any of them overlap? It would be surprising if they don't, although it would also not be surprising if some types of vinegar are made with species which wouldn't make 'normal kombucha'.

What chemicals make up the technical and functional differences between vinegar and kombucha?

I am sceptical, but I'm not saying you're wrong, and I haven't tried it. I heavily suspect that if you start with the normal kombucha tea mix and add vinegar you'll end up with something indistinguishable from kombucha, which would make it kombucha. I may be wrong of course.
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