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Home Brew Forums > Wine, Mead, Cider, Sake & Soda > Kombucha & Fermented Tea Forum > Making Kombucha using Apple Cider Vinegar
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Old 07-09-2012, 12:06 AM   #1
ThePonchoKid
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Default Making Kombucha using Apple Cider Vinegar

So I've finally got around to picking up some apple cider vinegar. This brand is unpasteurized and contains a mother. I figure I'll add about one ounce w/mother to a standard KT brewing medium. Cya in a little over a week

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Old 07-10-2012, 09:53 PM   #2
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Oh wow, very cool! I had no idea you could start a kombucha SCOBY from apple cider vinegar. Is this the same exact thing as the kombucha SCOBY, or does it produce a different tasting drink?

I'm very interested to see how this progresses, keep us updated!

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Old 07-10-2012, 10:00 PM   #3
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wont you just be making vinegar? your missing some of the other bacterias that make kombucha. SCOBY stands for symbiotic colony of bacteria and yeast. that vinegar will only have the vinegar bacteria in it? i may be wrong i've just started making kombucha.

i also interested how it turns out

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Old 07-14-2012, 01:44 AM   #4
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So day five and something is forming. I probably should have started with a higher concentration of vinegar to tea/sugar water in order to develop a robust mother first, and to worry about making a drinkable tea later.

I'm doing this for two reasons:

-apple cider vinegar can be added to your KT to help acidify your brew and prevent mold from taking over. Especially when you're just starting out with a new mother or starter.
-I believe that Kombucha is merely an acetobacter of no particular importance, and I'm pretty sure the yeasts are of a common airborne variety, compatible with said acetobacter. What makes Kombucha significant is what it is made with, not the mother per se.

I'll start a second more concentrated batch to focus solely on the production of the mother. I'll do this on day 7 and see how both are looking on the first brew's day 14 With pics

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Old 07-15-2012, 04:09 AM   #5
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Great idea! I've been meaning to get around to it for ages, but I've been too lazy to track down live vinegar.

As said, kombucha is just made with yeast and Acetobacter. Vinegar uses the same stuff, but not at the same time. The microbes and acidity should all be there in vinegar to make it work, you probably wouldn't even need the 'mother'. You can't make vinegar without first making alcohol. If you leave kombucha to sit around you end up with vinegar anyway, and yes, you can still make more kombucha with it.

Thanks for sharing your experience, I look forward to hearing the results

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Old 07-15-2012, 08:41 PM   #6
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actually there was no visible mother in that bottle of ACV

A mother is most certainly forming. I'm going to start up a smaller more concentrated brew today, to better propagate a mother. My first batch is virtually a 3.5L KT solution with 50ml of ACV. If I do more of a 50/50 blend to get a mother going fast, I should be able to remove the mother within a week to 10 days with 20ml of the liquid and do a proper drinkable 3.5L KT under the accustomed time of 7-10 days

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Old 07-19-2012, 12:40 AM   #7
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So here's what I got after ten days. It looks like a layer of some sort of gelatin. It's likely slow on the yeast uptake. I ran out of sugar to make a second more concentrated ACV batch to hasten mother production. So I'm just going to leave this one for another week and then remove the mother with some liquid, and then start anew. I am almost certain that it will become drinkable and will taste like standard KT after 8-10 days on the second brew.

It smells a bit like KT, it's still very sweet. So yes, it's slow coming even compared to using a commercial KT for a starter. I can use half a bottle of GT's original KT for a starter and have 3.5L of KT in 10 days

I'll post one more picture at the end of this batch cycle to show how it looks, and then we'll continue on from there in to the next brew

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Old 07-19-2012, 01:03 AM   #8
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In spite of what you think, Kombucha is not "merely an acetobacter of no particular importance" or "yeasts of a common airborne variety".

It's a symbiotic colony.

First, the yeast. It can be either Saccharomyces cerevisiae, Brettanomyces bruxellensis, Candida stellata, Schizosaccharomyces pombe, Torulaspora delbrueckii, or Zygosaccharomyces bailii.

Then comes Gluconacetobacter xylinus. That bacteria has to be the predominant one, as it is responsible for transforming alcool to acetic acid, AND it's responsible for creating the cellulose layer that grows on top, which we all call the "mother".

Now, congratulations, you just made vinegar. Unfortunatelly, you cannot call it "Kombucha" anymore.

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Old 07-19-2012, 09:59 PM   #9
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Thanks for the Congratulations. Now how about you share some links to where you've gathered this information so we can all become more enlightened? I'd like to see more credible research papers on KT, as last I looked it seemed quite lacking.

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Old 07-19-2012, 11:12 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePonchoKid View Post
Thanks for the Congratulations. Now how about you share some links to where you've gathered this information so we can all become more enlightened? I'd like to see more credible research papers on KT, as last I looked it seemed quite lacking.
I agree, the solid research about kombucha really is lacking. That's the hardest part for me, because I like to have definitive info on stuff like this.

I don't think AntX is totally off base, as most of my reading seems to suggest there are many differences between a SCOBY and a MOV (mother of vinegar).

"...the three universal elements in all kombucha mushroom strains are gluconic acid, acetic acid, and fructose.

Meanwhile, mother of vinegars (MOVs) are used to produce vinegar. MOVs are cellulose substances made of strains of Acetobacter (1 , 2 ) and bacteria that produce acetic acid."

"According to Happy Herbalist , the difference between kombucha and vinegar is that kombucha has gluconic acid, while vinegar does not."

"Meanwhile, according to the Steve Dickman, the co-founder of High Country Kombucha , what makes their kombucha "authentic" is the presence of the strain Z. Kombuchaensis in their brew..."



However, there does also seem to be the implication that if you start with a MOV, it can still become a SCOBY (or at least something very much like it) if you start feeding it sweet tea.

"However, I believe that even if you grow a kombucha SCOBY using the same method that I used to grow a kombucha mother (except for using raw vinegar as a starter instead of kombucha), and if you are feeding the culture glucose, fructose, and tea, and brewing as how you would traditionally brew kombucha, you should be getting benefits from the beneficial acids produced in the brewing process. Just like kombucha, there are health benefits associated with the consumption of unpasteurized vinegars. My hypothesis is that feeding such a culture grown from raw vinegar could still create a SCOBY, because it seems that there are some similar strains in kombucha SCOBYs and MOVs, and natural yeasts and bacteria in the air would be incorporated in the culture to create a SCOBY, as well."


This is the article that I'm getting this info from: http://www.kombuchafuel.com/2010/10/...f-vinegar.html

It's by no means definitive, but it does have some interesting info. I'd also recommend the links on that page to the kombucha analysis. At the end of the day, I say keep on keeping on, as I'm looking forward to seeing how your experiment turns out.

Cheers!
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