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Old 03-31-2011, 06:03 PM   #11
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Dry yeast does not need starters, but the way you are pitching kills half of the yeast. It should be rehydrated in order to maintain full viability.
Not buying this. If it killed half the yeast, the US05 instructions wouldn't say "sprinkle into wort."
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Old 03-31-2011, 06:47 PM   #12
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Not buying this. If it killed half the yeast, the US05 instructions wouldn't say "sprinkle into wort."
You can believe what you want, but it's clearly stated in chris white's/jz's book
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Old 03-31-2011, 07:59 PM   #13
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here's what i understand about starters and dry yeast. anyone correct me if im totaly wrong. first off i havent had problems using a dry yeast before, there just arent that my varieties to choose from.
there are 2 life stages for yeast. an active stage and a dormant stage. i like to think of it like scifi movies where astronauts have to go in to stasis for long trips to uranus.

so if we take a dormant dry yeast and toss it into the wort. these things have to wake up but some wont, figure out the metabolic pathway they'll use, then slowly but hopefully surely start converting sugar to alcohol, fornicating and multiplying. this takes time. its during this lag time, between pitch time and vigorus fermentation, that the wort can be influenced by contamination of other micro organisms.
compare this to when you have a starter, a nice slurry of active yeast. they are already alive, active and ready to consume sugar, poop alcohol, and fart CO2. they are also as a pretty high concentration so when they are pitched into the wort, they can immediately go to work as well as out compete any sort of contaminant.
heres another analogy. a fat kid in bed asleep takes more time to put ihop out of business than the fat kid waiting to be seated.

with dry yeast, you can proof the yeast prior to pitching. this is done by rehydrating the yeast in some sterile warm water, and after about 15 minutes adding a tablespoon of sugar. if in 15 minutes the yeast is bubbling and foaming its good too go. if its not bubbling and foaming it a expired packet.
You are very nearly correct, but I will just make a few notes.

The dormant instead of awake is the cause of all the lag time. Fornicating is associated with off flavors only, and doesn't delay the yeast much at all. It in fact has more to do with FG than lag time. Also, the longer the yeast have been dormant, the longer is takes to wake them up.

Proofing would actually be rehyrdrating taken a step further. To proof, you rehydrate and then add a small amount of sugar to the mixture, you will see additional foam if the yeast is viable. Dry yeast manufacturers recommend not doing this as it uses the "reserves". Rehydrating will foam a little on it's own, but it doesnt mean anything about viability, mostly just that it is dissolving in water.
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Old 03-31-2011, 08:00 PM   #14
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Not buying this. If it killed half the yeast, the US05 instructions wouldn't say "sprinkle into wort."
Last time I looked at a fermentis package it detailed a procedure to rehydrate the yeast.

Last time I looked at the instructions on a kit beer it said "sprinkle into wort".
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:43 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by DKershner View Post
Last time I looked at a fermentis package it detailed a procedure to rehydrate the yeast.

Last time I looked at the instructions on a kit beer it said "sprinkle into wort".
Well cool... I will rehydrate the yeast from now on. Might as well test this out with a new batch this weekend! Always an excuse to brew!
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Old 04-01-2011, 02:37 AM   #16
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Last time I looked at a fermentis package it detailed a procedure to rehydrate the yeast.

Last time I looked at the instructions on a kit beer it said "sprinkle into wort".
it all depends on the packages of yeast. fermentis have instructions, however something like coopers doesnt

just a minor point.

and touchee about the fornicating aspect. yeast asexually divide they dont primarily sexually reproduce, but when they do mutations occur. we want yeast to multiply but not mutate
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Old 04-01-2011, 05:54 PM   #17
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Sweet turkey fryer on sale at Home Depot! I think I will be using that from now on when brewing! Another excuse to brew this weekend! woot woot

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Old 04-01-2011, 06:25 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by DirtbagHB View Post
it all depends on the packages of yeast. fermentis have instructions, however something like coopers doesnt

just a minor point.

and touchee about the fornicating aspect. yeast asexually divide they dont primarily sexually reproduce, but when they do mutations occur. we want yeast to multiply but not mutate
You may not want them to mutate, but some of us have ulterior motives.

Though they may destroy the rest of you, the mutant super-yeast I will someday develop will worship me, their creator, as a god.

Oh, and to Andrewdell19, I haven't used the burner part of my turkery fryer in an actual brew yet (I did boil water on it once as a test), I'm looking forward to using it when the weather warms up a bit more here (snow today...some april fool's joke...)
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Old 04-06-2011, 03:35 AM   #19
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Far be it for me to not follow directions, and I have followed these, but can someone explain to me the difference between "rehydrating" dry yeast for a few minutes in slightly warmer than fermenting temp water, and "rehydrating" in proper temp wort.

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Old 04-06-2011, 03:57 PM   #20
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Far be it for me to not follow directions, and I have followed these, but can someone explain to me the difference between "rehydrating" dry yeast for a few minutes in slightly warmer than fermenting temp water, and "rehydrating" in proper temp wort.
Absence of sugar, 40F hotter water, doesnt sit on top since you stir it.

It's the same/similar reason as you make a starter for liquid yeast, you want it awake and ready when you pitch it, not asleep. The high sugar environment is too shocking to wake up to.
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