Electric Brewing Supply 30A BCS Giveaway!


Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Gluten Free Brewing > Rice syrup solids: Here's a question for ya!
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 11-20-2011, 06:21 AM   #1
kontreren
Gluten Free Brewing
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
kontreren's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 289
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default Rice syrup solids: Here's a question for ya!

Question: Will rice syrup solids convert its starches into fermentable sugars when brewed with sorghum syrup (malt extract)? I ask because I experimented with sorghum syrup as my base adding flaked corn (maize), instant rice and simply could not get the corn nor rice to convert. The second I threw in a small amount of barley malt (not extract) the corn and rice converted immediately from starch to sugars.

So will the rice syrup solids convert? Or even better question, is it already converted from starch to sugars?

__________________

Thankx,
Jesse, Home and Gluten Free Brewer

Member, Forsyth Masonic Lodge #707
Member, Winston Salem WortHawgs Brew Club
Lifetime Member, NRA
Lifetime Supporter, Homebrewtalk.com

http://www.worthawgs.org

http://www.queensboro.com/ref/EBCMMMSCNNN

http://iam.homebrewtalk.com/kontreren

http://www.bellaonline.com/site/Beer

kontreren is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2011, 12:00 PM   #2
BigEd
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,369
Liked 118 Times on 104 Posts
Likes Given: 18

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kontreren View Post
Question: Will rice syrup solids convert its starches into fermentable sugars when brewed with sorghum syrup (malt extract)? I ask because I experimented with sorghum syrup as my base adding flaked corn (maize), instant rice and simply could not get the corn nor rice to convert. The second I threw in a small amount of barley malt (not extract) the corn and rice converted immediately from starch to sugars.

So will the rice syrup solids convert? Or even better question, is it already converted from starch to sugars?
Rice syrup solids and sorghum syrup are extract products and contain no starch-converting enzymes. You require a base malt product with diastatic enzymes to convert the starch in unmalted grain products (flake maize, rice, etc) to fermentable sugars.
__________________
BigEd is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-20-2011, 12:15 PM   #3
usfmikeb
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Posts: 3,172
Liked 234 Times on 200 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Or you can buy the enzymes if you're trying to avoid using any malt.

__________________
usfmikeb is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2011, 03:59 AM   #4
KevinM
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 1,171
Liked 18 Times on 18 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Neither answered the main question (though they are true): Rice syrup solids are a sugar. Rice syrup solids are the dehydrated remains of rice syrup, which is already converted rice starch.

Rice, corn, and any other grain (non gluten containing) do need to be converted with the addition of enzymes from some source (unfortunately, the most common source is malted barley).

Sorghum syrup and rice syrup (and rice syrup solids) are products that have been converted to sugars and as such, do not need further conversion. They also do not contain enzymes for converting anything else.

__________________

Primary: Sake
Secondary: GF Czech Lager
Waiting to be kegged, Italian Primitivo
Kegged&Ready: GF Orange&Coriander, GF Honey Lager, GF chocolate ale, GF English ale, Island mist (zinfandel), Island mist (cbry malbec).
Bottled: Infected Mead, Dry Hard ciders, Accidental Sorghumwine, various unnamed.

KevinM is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2011, 04:41 AM   #5
kontreren
Gluten Free Brewing
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
kontreren's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Honolulu, HI
Posts: 289
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts

Default

awesome answer, thankx, thats watt i was thinking; It also reminds me that I tried the enzyme to convert flaked corn for a considerable amount of time with no success before tossing in a small amount of barley malt only to watch the corn convert instantly. I was a little apprehensive adding the enzyme. Over an hour or so I used 2 or 3 teaspoons. I wasn't sure how much was "too much" enzyme. Also unsure if that enzyme gets old and loses potency as well.

__________________

Thankx,
Jesse, Home and Gluten Free Brewer

Member, Forsyth Masonic Lodge #707
Member, Winston Salem WortHawgs Brew Club
Lifetime Member, NRA
Lifetime Supporter, Homebrewtalk.com

http://www.worthawgs.org

http://www.queensboro.com/ref/EBCMMMSCNNN

http://iam.homebrewtalk.com/kontreren

http://www.bellaonline.com/site/Beer

kontreren is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2011, 05:15 PM   #6
DougmanXL
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Posts: 67
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

I actually create GF starters with 1-2 cups of rice syrup solids per 2 quarts.
Also, I may try creating a "Sake" using rice syrup solids and wine yeast.

__________________

how much malt could a millet malter malt if a millet malter could malt millet?

DougmanXL is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-21-2011, 10:16 PM   #7
usfmikeb
Feedback Score: 5 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Posts: 3,172
Liked 234 Times on 200 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DougmanXL
I actually create GF starters with 1-2 cups of rice syrup solids per 2 quarts.
Also, I may try creating a "Sake" using rice syrup solids and wine yeast.
There's a specific spore that you need for sake, I think you can get it at AHS.
__________________
usfmikeb is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-22-2011, 12:15 AM   #8
KevinM
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 1,171
Liked 18 Times on 18 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Enzymes do have a shelflife, so it's only good for a certain length of time. Also, I believe we've discussed that they are only alpha enzymes, not beta enzymes which will affect different conversion parts.

Barley has both, but of course, using barley means it's not gluten free.

Rice syrup can be used for starters, but if you do, I'd probably recommend adding nutrients. It's a bit light on the nutrient side.

Yes, real sake needs the specific mold that produces enzymes to convert rice starch into sugar. However a 100% rice beer "sake" is possible. Oddly enough, it does not have the same taste as sake. I found the 100% rice beer to be slightly more caramelly than real sake, probably due to processing.

__________________

Primary: Sake
Secondary: GF Czech Lager
Waiting to be kegged, Italian Primitivo
Kegged&Ready: GF Orange&Coriander, GF Honey Lager, GF chocolate ale, GF English ale, Island mist (zinfandel), Island mist (cbry malbec).
Bottled: Infected Mead, Dry Hard ciders, Accidental Sorghumwine, various unnamed.

KevinM is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-22-2011, 01:38 PM   #9
DougmanXL
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Brampton, Ontario
Posts: 67
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts
Likes Given: 3

Default

I usually use 1tsp of yeast nutrient in starters and my beers. Thanks for the info though, guess I'll have brew sake the usual way, I was hoping that might be a good shortcut for making sake.

__________________

how much malt could a millet malter malt if a millet malter could malt millet?

DougmanXL is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 11-22-2011, 11:35 PM   #10
KevinM
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ann Arbor, Michigan
Posts: 1,171
Liked 18 Times on 18 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

Well, I techincally was trying to make a starter (but wound up doing what was a full batch, thinking that was a starter) no hops. It tasted ok, kind of sweet, but not like sake (which I did later) and more like beer. It could be because I used ale yeast too, but it was more caramel like rather than ...vodka like... (not quite, what I mean) but sake is more clear and floral.

__________________

Primary: Sake
Secondary: GF Czech Lager
Waiting to be kegged, Italian Primitivo
Kegged&Ready: GF Orange&Coriander, GF Honey Lager, GF chocolate ale, GF English ale, Island mist (zinfandel), Island mist (cbry malbec).
Bottled: Infected Mead, Dry Hard ciders, Accidental Sorghumwine, various unnamed.

KevinM is offline
 
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply



Quick Reply
Message:
Options
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Sorghum Syrup v Brown Rice Syrup Lcasanova Gluten Free Brewing 19 04-29-2014 05:08 PM
Brown Rice Syrup -vs- Rice Syrup solids Trollby Gluten Free Brewing 3 07-02-2011 08:11 PM
Brown Rice Syrup tonyolympia Gluten Free Brewing 2 04-01-2011 07:51 PM
Rice Syrup Solids in place of syrup frogguruami Gluten Free Brewing 14 05-06-2010 07:36 PM
Brown Rice Syrup PPG? VTBrewer Gluten Free Brewing 1 02-19-2010 08:45 PM