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Old 04-26-2012, 03:43 AM   #81
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I have been using Clarity-Ferm from White Labs for the past three beers. I haven't noticed any difference in body or head retention. A side-by-side is in order. But let's put it this way: the effect of Clarity-Ferm on body and head is slight enough that I would have never thought about it unless you guys alerted me to the possibility.

I say, if you're curious, don't think of CF as a step backward. Go ahead and try it, and get a crystal-clear beer while you're at it!

Flatspin, +1 on definition of an enzyme. Just add the recommended amount for any gravity beer. What limits the activity of a protein-based enzyme is typically unfolding and aggregation. Both will eventually push activity to zero, so just make sure to keep it in the fridge at all times before you use it. (Cold slows unfolding, and a constant temp deters aggregation.)

As far as the enzyme settling, keep in mind how small most proteins are -- nanometers in diameter. Compare this to the micometer diameter of yeast (that's 1000x different). Yeast have a hard time settling in a liquid unless they flocculate, so a protein doesn't even stand a chance. Clarity-ferm will never settle out unless it has adsorbed onto something big, and if that's the case, it's probably not active anymore.

Just got a sack of malted red millet for my GF buddy -- we'll see how it goes!

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Old 04-26-2012, 03:49 AM   #82
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There's one reason to believe CF may spare most body and head-forming proteins. It targets runs of proline, which gluten happens to contain.

So, it's only targeting polyproline stretches, sparing all proteins without that pattern of amino acids.

DPPIV seems to do the same, but it cuts only at one end of proteins. (Similar to how beta-amylase cuts only at the end of starch). White Labs claims that CF contains an endo-peptidase, which means it will cut in the middle of a protein. (like how alpha-amylase cuts at branch points in the middle of starch)

Anyway, just wanted to point out that the White Labs product is potentially different from the stuff at the drug store because of where it cuts proline-containing proteins.

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Old 04-26-2012, 09:51 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drummstikk
There's one reason to believe CF may spare most body and head-forming proteins. It targets runs of proline, which gluten happens to contain.

So, it's only targeting polyproline stretches, sparing all proteins without that pattern of amino acids.

DPPIV seems to do the same, but it cuts only at one end of proteins. (Similar to how beta-amylase cuts only at the end of starch). White Labs claims that CF contains an endo-peptidase, which means it will cut in the middle of a protein. (like how alpha-amylase cuts at branch points in the middle of starch)

Anyway, just wanted to point out that the White Labs product is potentially different from the stuff at the drug store because of where it cuts proline-containing proteins.
That is really interesting, and I've never heard of DPPIV. Could it be used in conjunction with clarity ferm to reduce the gluten level even further, the way alpha and beta amalayse work together to create fermentable sugars?
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Old 04-26-2012, 09:57 PM   #84
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That is really interesting, and I've never heard of DPPIV. Could it be used in conjunction with clarity ferm to reduce the gluten level even further, the way alpha and beta amalayse work together to create fermentable sugars?
Cool idea -- somebody mentioned DPPIV earlier in this thread, saying they found it at a drugstore.

I wonder if it would get rid of that last little bit of discomfort GF peeps tend to experience with Clarity-Ferm beers?

Anybody with mild gluten sensitivity want to be a guinea pig? (A thankless job, but you'd be doing it for SCIENCE!)
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Old 05-28-2012, 04:17 AM   #85
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I hate to drag this up, but I feel the need to comment.

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You are born with the genetic capability of developing the disease and have the ability to pass it to offspring, but if there are no symptoms, there is no disease. This is why you can test children nowadays to see if they have the possibility of developing it.
Not to be a drag, but this is grossly inaccurate. There are gastrointestinal, physical and mental symptoms associated with Celiac Disease. As a cross section example, I display diarrhea, joint pain/lethargy and ADHD that lasts for 7-10 days after ingestion. Only one of those is classically linked to Celiac/Gluten Sensitivity. Just because someone doesn't correctly identify all of their symptoms as being related to ingesting gluten, doesn't mean they don't exist. Further, if someone has mostly healed and is ingesting small amounts of gluten, there is a very real chance that they are damaging their intestinal villa and they don't know it because they aren't showing symptoms. Consuming under 20ppm of gluten may be the safe range for most people to not show symptoms, but if you want to get technical about it, it doesn't mean that damage isn't being done. You do damage to your body, and because of that damage, symptoms develop. To say that if there are no symptoms there's no disease is completely inaccurate. A celiac shows no symptoms on a life long gluten free diet, but you can't say the diet cures the disease because there are a lack of symptoms.

That said, while the focus of this thread is a neat concept, I think there is a general lack of knowledge on Celiac. This is a DANGEROUS thing for Celiacs, and gluten sensitive people to try. I know the OP says that, but it needs to be reiterated and not downplayed for the sake of people that dig up this thread in the future. There is a reason why people with an autoimmune disease should avoid the things that attack their immune system. I know that there are a lot of people out there with wide ranges of sensitivities, but the notion that a clarity agent is going to break down Gliadin enough to make the AA Chains "inert" is completely baseless and incredibly naive.

I think this is something for people that are trying to avoid gluten for general health reasons to try. The rest of us should probably wait until the GMO Gods start pumping out Gliadin-free Barley.
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Old 06-02-2012, 04:29 AM   #86
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I found a lab that will do a sub 20ppm test for gluten. My next several batches I am going to run those tests. I'll do a kit and one if these and see what results I get. It will be a early winter before I getbsome numbers though.
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I have two batches to test. One traditional brew pumpkin ale control and a second batch with clari-ferm.
did you ever get your batches tested? would love to see the difference between the control and enzymed batch to put my MIL mind in thr right place and not drink because its at the acceptible level or a RCH higher..

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I think this is something for people that are trying to avoid gluten for general health reasons to try.
this is the exact reason im looking into this enzyme. my MIL is on a GF diet for health and not allergy but is very strict on what is comsumed...
thanks for this great thread everyone
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:21 PM   #87
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Hi All, just to amplify and clarify on the cautions given above, **Gluten-Reduced still has all the Hordein in it**. If you have Celiac disease (like me), there is no benefit to you from clarity-ferm (or any similar product) or any "reduced-gluten" beer. It does reduce gliadin (gluten from wheat), so if wheat is your only issue, then maybe this is a good thing for you.

Here is an article on this information: http://news.discovery.com/human/low-...mkcpgn=rssnws1

Here is the actual study providing the info: http://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/pr2008434

A co-worker and I thought about trying to duplicate the results here at the National Lab where I work, but it's incredibly laborious, which is probably why it took so long for someone to do it the first time.

Cheers,

Hopaddict.

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Old 12-10-2012, 02:23 AM   #88
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Just thought I would chip in here with some anecdotal evidence.

I brew everything with clarity ferm as my wife is a celiac. It takes very very little gluten for her to have a reaction, but she has no issues drinking my beer with clarity ferm added.

It works for us and I have seen no effect on head and body. Even if body was a concern, you can always mash hotter.

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Old 05-13-2013, 05:58 PM   #89
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Subscribing to this thread, this is some good stuff!

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Old 05-16-2013, 10:26 PM   #90
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For every anecdote I've heard about someone being okay with it, I've heard another about someone still getting sick from it. Anecdotal evidence is worthless.

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