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Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Gluten Free Brewing > Graff: substitute ingredients?

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Old 03-17-2012, 11:43 AM   #21
jimmystewart
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Huh. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. I wasn't familiar with the Fawcett oat malt. While I'd be relatively confident that the product itself is probably gluten free, I'd be very hesitant to use it in a brew that I needed to be gluten free, especially if buying it from someplace that mainly deals in gluten containing ingredients. I seriously doubt that Northern Brewer has a set of gluten free scales that they use to weigh their oat malt. If it was my own health I might be willing to roll the dice, but in my home the whole gluten free thing is for my girlfriend and I'm not going to put her at any risk at all. Have you tried to see if it's possible to order directly from Fawcett? If they only make the oat malt, I think you'd get a much cleaner product...

I really didn't perceive any oatmeal flavor in any brew that I've used oatmeal in. I was after more of the roasty or burned flavor, which has been minimal but noticeable with the lighter roasts that I've done. I have roasted some steel cut oats much darker, but I haven't had time to play with them yet. I anticipate much more flavor to come through from them. The amount of sorghum syrup that I used was kind of small, but the end result was certainly noticeably different from the ciders that I've made. Color was a little bit darker than plain cider but not much. Final gravity was 1.013.

There's a thread somewhere on HBT where a guy did a bunch of different roasts of some GF grain... I think it might have been oats. You'd probably find it interesting / helpful. Search, search, searchy search.... Ah! Here it is:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f164/ove...-stout-267260/

As far as the honey, based on what little I've done with it and what I've read about it I think it's more than just a sugar. If you're interested, hop on over to the mead sub-forum and you'll likely find more opinions on the huge differences among the varieties of honey. With beer we might hide a lot of the subtle flavors behind the stronger flavors of grain and hops, but I'm certain that they're still in there.

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Old 03-17-2012, 05:28 PM   #22
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I did an 92% Fawcett Oat malt and 8% buckwheat honey pilsner. I didn't roast any grains as I wanted a fairly clean lager. Personally, I wasn't sure about the gluten content either, so I added a vial of Clarity Ferm to take care of any gluten proteins hanging around. I'm pretty sensitive and didn't experience any reaction, which is pretty amazing. I'm going to do a full post on it, but my regular beer drinking friends said "it tastes like beer!" which is a good thing

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Old 03-21-2012, 03:34 AM   #23
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I may invest in a gluten test kit for the oat malt. Fawcett does produce mostly barley malt.

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Old 03-21-2012, 05:10 AM   #24
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@muench1 you're probably right about there being some gluten content in the oat malt. i'd be interested to hear you results. the only thing is that those home gluten tests aren't very accurate at a low PPMs, which is probably the level you'd be testing. ideally, you'd send the beer to a lab. if i could find one around here for a reasonable price, i could give it a shot

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Old 03-21-2012, 12:12 PM   #25
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I've also heard that those regular tests are designed to pick up the protein from wheat, and aren't very accurate at picking up the protein from barley.

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Old 03-27-2012, 07:51 AM   #26
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My test is, feed it to the girlfriend and see what happens. I'm pretty convinced her condition isn't celiac but some other wheat-related sensitivity, and low levels of gluten seem to have no effect, even though we avoid gluten when possible.

On Friday, I did a mash with some fawcett oat malt(4lb), golden naked oats(1lb) and a little oatmeal then boiled to one gallon and put into primary with juice. It's gently fermenting and smells delicious. My day didn't go as planned at all, and instead of being done before company came for dinner I was stirring my wort while we were eating . I was so exhausted (and drinking plenty of beer with the company)by the time my wort had cooled that I totally failed to pick up my hygrometer 8 inches away, so my data are essentially non-existent. Oh well, we'll see what it tastes like!

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Old 04-01-2012, 08:01 PM   #27
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Default Turns out... really good!

So like I said, I was behind schedule, tired, and a bit by the time I finished my boil after mashing the various oats: 4# Thomas Fawcett malted, 1# Golden Naked Oats, 4oz oatmeal. I had a WL English Cider yeast cake from a previous cider that I'd made into a 1 gal starter (I just dumped a gallon of juice on it) a few days earlier.

After 9 days in primary, it's delicious with a FG of 1.010. Working backwards, given the measured gravity of the juice I used and the estimations for the mash, my best guess is I had an OG of approximately 1.064. It's a little gnarly looking still with plenty of solids in it, so I think that at 1.01 it's fermented dry.

The taste thus far has pronounced apple with some really nice complex flavors, but not particularly malty. Sadly this GF Graff has almost no smell; don't ask me why, because I had plenty of strong apple aroma when I made straight cider with the same exact culture of yeast.

THE GLUTEN TEST
My girlfriend isn't super-sensitive but does require a gluten free diet. She does NOT test positive for celiac using the standard blood test for antibody, and she is not extremely sensitive. She does get miserably ill if she eats anything containing wheat (bring me a beer and I'll recount the infamous Double Fudge Brownie incident!). 4 of 5 of her mother's family, and all of their descendants, have the same issue.

I mashed all the oats together, and after sparging I took the Golden Naked Oats out and made a super thick hearty stew of it, which was delicious. She had a big bowl of it and had no reaction at all. YMMV. If anybody in the Monterey or SF Bay areas would like volunteer to guinea pig this further, I'll gladly donate a bottle. To science!

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Old 04-01-2012, 10:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muench1 View Post
If anybody in the Monterey or SF Bay areas would like volunteer to guinea pig this further, I'll gladly donate a bottle. To science!
I'm in Oakland, and I'd love to swap bottles. My gluten-free gruit is probably the tastiest thing I've got in bottles right now, though it's still a bit on the young side, but I'd love to trade it just to see if this oat malt sets me off or not. I'd be ECSTATIC if this proves to be safe for me, because that means I can do some real mashing with real grains!
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Old 04-25-2012, 06:00 AM   #29
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% LB OZ
76% 4 0 Oats, Malted (Thomas Fawcett)
19% 1 0 Golden Naked Oats
05% 0 4 Oats, Flaked

White Labs English Cider (love the stuff!)

Mashed and boiled down to 1 gallon. Combined with 4 gallons of quality organic unfiltered pasteurized apple juice (mostly because the fancy juice costs an extra dollar but comes with a great 1 gallon jug).

? days primary
? days secondary
(Will update these when I have my notebook handy)

Bottled today and primed with honey. When I sampled it this morning it was delicious: neither sweet nor tart, with lots of apple flavor and some beer-like flavor as well. No off-flavors or odd aftertaste at all. I would say it's an overall better (though obviously different) product than any commercially available cider I know of. My girlfriend (the gluten-sensitive one) had probably 2-3 oz, thought it was delicious and had no reaction at all.

I was a little when I put it into primary and so have no OG, and didn't bother with FG this morning. I can tell you that my juice was 1.045, for all the good that does you. My original projections were OG of 1.064 and FG of 1.010, but I highly doubt I was that efficient. I'm sure this will go pretty fast and I'll do my homework properly next time.

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Old 04-25-2012, 05:35 PM   #30
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I'm glad you updated with your results. There are so many promising threads that people won't follow up on. I definitely think oats are a great way to go for a clean tasting grain that'll give you a decent gravity, opposed to malting masses of gluten free grains and getting poor results. You're "cider" sounds pretty good. You mentioned how it was "not particularly malty," but there's nothing you included that'd give you malt flavor. The oats do convert like others malts somewhat but do not provide maltiness. I loved to see a picture of it too.

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