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Old 01-18-2013, 12:47 AM   #11
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I guess that depends a lot on your idea of what "paleo" means.

I was just watching a Discovery documentary about how beer was the reason agriculture exists at all and was the primary source of water and nutrition for early, civilized man.

On a side note, I'd also love some easy, gourmet meat recipes!

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Old 01-18-2013, 01:23 AM   #12
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My general sense is that while the Paleo movement has its heart in the right place--modern industrial food should be shunned, because our systems do not tolerate it well--I think they go too far in insisting that a grain-free, legume-free diet is necessary. The simple fact is that our ancestors have been eating grains and legumes for thousands of years, but in fermented forms much different than we eat them today. They certainly didn't just boil up the raw grains and eat them! Sprouting/germinating/malting grains and beans, and then letting wild yeasts and bacteria chow down on them (as happens in the concoction of tempeh, miso, chicha, chang, and "real" sourdough) has a powerful effect on making the grains digestible and assimilable. Beer-making is one of the oldest known ways of doing this, and traditional beers--I'm talking Egypt, here--were drunk unfiltered and quite young, teeming with yeast and other probiotic organisms. In Africa one can still find sour unfiltered beers like this (made with sorghum, no less!), and probably in other parts of the world as well. If humans had any trouble digesting these foods, they would not have eaten them, simply put. The fact that they did eat and drink these grain-based foods (for thousands of years, no less) is a potent argument in favor of maintaining them in one's diet. I would give the Paleo movement a lot more credence if they embraced these traditional fermentation methods, rather than just ditching grains and legumes all together. Of course, there's also the fact that our modern staple crops are genetically quite different from those of our ancestors, as well...I'd suggest looking into brewing with heritage or heirloom varieties of grains, if you're of a Paleo mind. Malted einkorn can actually be purchased; there was a recent thread here on the subject, in fact.

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Old 01-18-2013, 01:28 AM   #13
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I went Primal Blueprint lifestyle, which has slight differences and allows for dairy, but decided right from the beginning that there will be some "cheat" items that I had to be realistic about or else I would never stick with it. Beer is one of the few things that I just ignore about not being allowed and I'm doing just fine. I love beer far too much to give up one of my few remaining vices. The reason I mention this is because it's something you may want to consider. Good luck with sticking with it. Once carb flu ended I was feeling worlds better. Loving it.

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Old 01-18-2013, 01:46 AM   #14
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How you know you've gone off the deep end with a diet: You start to consider cutting beer (as we know it) entirely!

This Paleo thing seems like it's just Atkins repackaged for 2012. I can see the no dairy, we (most of us) really aren't equipped to process it after infancy. But to cut carbs... not good. Besides, Paleo man didn't eat grains and legumes because they hadn't learned to cultivate crops yet.

No one seems to consider that the average Paleo man would be lucky to see 35... anyone can eat anything for the short term....but when you consider modern medicine, longevity, and access to food it doesn't add up. Eating clean food, yeah that makes sense, but limiting yourself to food sources available to primitive man, one who didn't live very long, and somehow use that as evidence of its efficacy......

Do whatever you believe, but for god's sake man, don't cut the beer

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Old 01-18-2013, 03:33 AM   #15
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In the interest of full disclosure, I should mention that I adhere to Dr. Fuhrman's "Eat to Live"/"Nutritarian" diet. No added oil, no added salt, no added sugar to anything I eat (90% of the time, anyway), and roughly a pound of green veggies per day (on average). I limit grains, because I eat to maximize micronutrients per calorie, and grains just aren't all that nutritious. Unlike Paleo, I eat minimal meat, and plenty of beans; and every aspect of my diet comes from peer-reviewed scientific studies (or at the very least is supported by them). But y'know, I still drink plenty of beer, because having a diet as healthy as mine means I don't have to worry about a beer belly, and my risk of various chronic diseases is significantly lowered, meaning I can expect to enjoy my homebrew to a very ripe old age. I see my diet as counter-balancing my vices, basically.

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Old 01-18-2013, 07:14 AM   #16
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I dont really know what Paleo is but if your talking about only eating what ancients ate then technically speaking beer is about as ancient as it gets...certainly different back then but still beer. I know a lot of the problems with modern grains has to do with the genetically modified everything these days so maybe finding grains that fit the whole organic/non GMO description then maybe your ok. Otherwise if chestnuts are ok then definitely check out the recipe that was previously posted. I brewed that, granted messed up a bit somewhere along the line and it came out at 12.5% but after aging it 6 months or so it really became good.

Good luck

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Old 01-18-2013, 12:04 PM   #17
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Not to hijack this thread and turn it into a discussion on the merits of paleo eating, but a few points in defense of my way of eating for about 3 years, and something that has really changed my life for the better:

- The paleo diet/primal blueprint is a way of eating, not a religion. While our evolution as humans provides a good framework to start the conversation, we don't eat things just because cavemen had them, and we don't shun them simply because cavemen didn't have them. We're not trying to reenact paleolithic lifestyle; we're trying to use observations about paleolithic peoples to ask questions about modern diet and optimize it. Paleolithic peoples were largely devoid of any of the "diseases of affluence" which plague us today. We use that observation as a starting point to ask why. All of it is backed up by science, not a desire to live like a cave man.
- igliashon, I agree that traditional preparation of grains is 1000% better than consuming the standard american diet, but those grains and legumes (even in their traditionally prepared state) still have in impact on gut health. That's obviously a huge discussion on its own, but that's why we don't eat them. Gluten is the largest offender, so I try to focus on that, rather than the other grains we use in gluten free brewing, since I'm not drinking gluten free brew every night.
- Beer is ancient, and people have been consuming it for thousands of years (I think mead is probably older), but as I said above, the idea isn't historical reenactment. Beer still isn't good for you, no matter how delicious it is.
- The life expectancy of paleolithic peoples may not be as short as you think, and although it's certainly shorter than it is today, a small cut that got infected could easily have killed them, dragging their average life expectancy lower. Their diet wasn't the problem.
- I've been eating this way for about 3 years (with frequent "cheats"; I still drink alcohol, and can't resist a good batch of mac & cheese, although I definitely feel it afterward), and I've seen a dramatic turnaround in all bloodwork and markers of health and disease. Granted that's completely anecdotal, but I've also gone off of it for a few months, and saw both my waistline and heart disease markers increase.

There're smarter folks than me that can answer many of the questions you guys raised, but if you want to learn more, including the studies that back it up, I would check out www.marksdailyapple.com , www.robbwolf.com , and www.thepaleodiet.com . I would suggest reading up on those studies before chalking it up to a fad.

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Old 01-18-2013, 12:08 PM   #18
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Just make an exception for beer. You can have a tasty full grain beer and still do 30 MU AFAP.

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Old 01-18-2013, 12:12 PM   #19
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Igliashon, just curious: do you exclude all oils, or just the heavily oxidized industrial seed oils loaded with O6? Is coconut oil or olive oil out, too?

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Old 01-18-2013, 01:26 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frothdaddy View Post
Not to hijack this thread and turn it into a discussion on the merits of paleo eating, but a few points in defense of my way of eating for about 3 years, and something that has really changed my life for the better:

- The paleo diet/primal blueprint is a way of eating, not a religion. While our evolution as humans provides a good framework to start the conversation, we don't eat things just because cavemen had them, and we don't shun them simply because cavemen didn't have them. We're not trying to reenact paleolithic lifestyle; we're trying to use observations about paleolithic peoples to ask questions about modern diet and optimize it. Paleolithic peoples were largely devoid of any of the "diseases of affluence" which plague us today. We use that observation as a starting point to ask why. All of it is backed up by science, not a desire to live like a cave man.
- igliashon, I agree that traditional preparation of grains is 1000% better than consuming the standard american diet, but those grains and legumes (even in their traditionally prepared state) still have in impact on gut health. That's obviously a huge discussion on its own, but that's why we don't eat them. Gluten is the largest offender, so I try to focus on that, rather than the other grains we use in gluten free brewing, since I'm not drinking gluten free brew every night.
- Beer is ancient, and people have been consuming it for thousands of years (I think mead is probably older), but as I said above, the idea isn't historical reenactment. Beer still isn't good for you, no matter how delicious it is.
- The life expectancy of paleolithic peoples may not be as short as you think, and although it's certainly shorter than it is today, a small cut that got infected could easily have killed them, dragging their average life expectancy lower. Their diet wasn't the problem.
- I've been eating this way for about 3 years (with frequent "cheats"; I still drink alcohol, and can't resist a good batch of mac & cheese, although I definitely feel it afterward), and I've seen a dramatic turnaround in all bloodwork and markers of health and disease. Granted that's completely anecdotal, but I've also gone off of it for a few months, and saw both my waistline and heart disease markers increase.

There're smarter folks than me that can answer many of the questions you guys raised, but if you want to learn more, including the studies that back it up, I would check out www.marksdailyapple.com , www.robbwolf.com , and www.thepaleodiet.com . I would suggest reading up on those studies before chalking it up to a fad.
Not that I concede your point, but thank you for reminding me to do a little research before I open my mouth I got a little carried away there.
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