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Old 09-16-2010, 08:04 PM   #41
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OK, I am going to try and look at how this beer SHOULD end up, and hopefully that will bring us somewhat closer to finding what you want. Below, I will try to list as much sugar and fermentability info that I can and we should be able to add it up to what this beer comes out as...

Minimash
6#millet 30 pts @ 75% fermentability 7.5 remain
3#red rice 15pts @ 80% fermentability 3 remain
1/2# whole quinoa 2.5pts @ 75% fermentability .625 remain
mash 145-150 for 1 hour
sparge 165

4#dememera sugar 176 PPG or 35.2pts @ 96% fermentability 1.4 remain
1# caramelized honey 35 PPG or 7pts @ uh...40% fermentability 4.2 remain
2# honey 70 PPG or 14pts @ 75% fermentability 3.5 remain
3# Amber Candi sugar 96 PPG, or 19.2pts @ 67% fermentability 6.4 remain
1#5oz rice malt syrup (the size the jar comes in) 47 PPG, or 9.4pts @ 75% fermentability 2.35 remain
1 banana Uh... 1pt @ 85% fermentability .15 remain

OK, so I come up with 133.3pts or 1.1333 for a SG.

FG should be... 29.1pts or 1.030.

If ANYONE AT ALL sees something wrong with my math, or one of my complete guesses, please let me know.

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Old 09-16-2010, 08:07 PM   #42
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wow, thanks! how do you find all of that?

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Old 09-16-2010, 08:11 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfiniteThought View Post
wow, thanks! how do you find all of that?
Either stuff I already knew, or complete guesses.

The grains are a toss up, I gave them a low value for sugars, but if you get them to convert well it could be higher.
The carmelized honey depends a lot on how you roast it I would think.
I have no idea how much sugar a banana has.

The rest is info I could find from various sources.

EDIT: Let other people weigh in, in case I did something dumb. Otherwise, it seems like a good ending gravity. Check the "Remain" numbers for yourself and make sure the highest numbers are what you want the most taste of in your beer.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:16 PM   #44
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lets see, a normal large banana has approximately 15 g of carbohydrate, not sure how much of it is fermentable but that is so little I am not sure that it really matters. I usually get fairly poor conversions on the grain because they are not malted so low values would be right. I think ill add just a few oz more Candi to bump it back up to 1.140, just so I don't have to mess with my hop balance again, plus I like round numbers.

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Old 09-16-2010, 08:19 PM   #45
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With an estimated OG that high, there are fermentation issues to deal with. Revvy does a good job of going over them in his Barleywine thread, but I will cover the basics.

1. Lots of Oxygen - Aerate the crap out of your fermenter to begin with and again 12hrs into the ferment.

2. Craploads of yeast - Since you are using all dry yeast, pitch more than one packet and make sure to rehydrate. Mr Malty has a good calculator.

3. Staggered sugar additions - Wait to add those sugars until fermentation is rolling, I like doing them 3, 5, 7 days into fermentation, with 1/3 of each sugar added each of those days.

And...that's all I can think of for now.

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Old 09-16-2010, 08:21 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InfiniteThought View Post
lets see, a normal large banana has approximately 15 g of carbohydrate, not sure how much of it is fermentable but that is so little I am not sure that it really matters. I usually get fairly poor conversions on the grain because they are not malted so low values would be right. I think ill add just a few oz more Candi to bump it back up to 1.140, just so I don't have to mess with my hop balance again, plus I like round numbers.
I wouldnt worry too much about round numbers, since I was just guessing on a lot of it anyway. With a big ole beer, you don't have too much to worry about with hop balance, just make it as complex as you like and hit it with at least 50IBUs.

I made an edit to the banana, it was too high before. OG and FG were adjusted too.
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:33 PM   #47
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I believe bananas affect mouthfeel because they are high in glycerin and most of the aroma will be "cooked" of by an active fermentation in the primary. They are an old trick for adding body to fruit wines without having a large impact on flavor. I'd have to do some research to find the recommended amounts though, which would probably be different for a beer anyways.

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Old 09-16-2010, 08:33 PM   #48
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I am going to use a yeast cake of Nottinghams that will be from a blackberry ale, and a small starter of T-58 and in secondary a starter of CL23 wine yeast no underpitching for me.

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Old 09-16-2010, 08:43 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DKershner View Post

Minimash
6#millet 30 pts @ 75% fermentability 7.5 remain
3#red rice 15pts @ 80% fermentability 3 remain
1/2# whole quinoa 2.5pts @ 75% fermentability .625 remain
mash 145-150 for 1 hour
sparge 165

FG should be... 29.1pts or 1.030.

If ANYONE AT ALL sees something wrong with my math, or one of my complete guesses, please let me know.
Aren't the grains unmalted? I would think he could save himself 30 minutes and just do a steep with these to get color and some grain characteristics? Did I miss something about amylase or anything else here?
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Old 09-16-2010, 08:45 PM   #50
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yes I am going to mash with amylase. not sure if that was clear earlier, sorry.

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