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Old 05-24-2013, 07:31 PM   #1
danz
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Default Enzymes

Does anyone have connections to get promalt? I am going to see if I cant get it from my LHBS (which also happens to be a brewer) but if I cannot do you think this combination would suffice for non malted GF grains?

Alpha-Amylase Enzyme

Gluco-Amylase Enzyme

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Old 05-25-2013, 06:57 PM   #2
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Both of these are saccharification enzymes, and will not do much for liberating proteins and dissolving beta-glucans in the grains. You can probably get away with using them on rice and corn, but there's not much point in doing that because the resulting beer won't taste much different than if you'd just used rice syrup or corn syrup (trust me, I tried it). I wonder if you could find enzymes at a health food store? You want to look for endo-protease and beta-glucanase.

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Old 05-26-2013, 08:52 PM   #3
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As I understand it, a cereal mash for barley brews is just boiling unmalted grains to break them down so the enzymes can do their thing. If that is the case then I don't see why grinding and boiling gluten-free grains wouldn't produce a wort suitable for the amylase enzymes. I hope it works because I'm planning to try exactly that.

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Old 05-26-2013, 09:37 PM   #4
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Believe igliashon. He's done a bunch of these experiments. You will need a wider arrange of enzymes. Its most likely cheaper and easier to malt your grains. The malting process does things other than producing just enzymes.

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Old 05-27-2013, 03:25 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by SouthernGorilla View Post
As I understand it, a cereal mash for barley brews is just boiling unmalted grains to break them down so the enzymes can do their thing. If that is the case then I don't see why grinding and boiling gluten-free grains wouldn't produce a wort suitable for the amylase enzymes. I hope it works because I'm planning to try exactly that.
Yes, but "the enzymes" are not just saccharification enzymes. Malted barley contains a variety of important enzymes that do more than just convert starch to sugar. In grains that are high in protein and/or high in beta glucans, such as quinoa, oats, or buckwheat, you need additional enzymes to help break down the beta-glucans and long protein chains in order a) provide proper nutrients for the yeast, b) liquefy the mash to aid in saccharification, and c) produce wort of a thin and clear consistency.

In my experiments using simply an amylase blend on cereal-mashed unmalted grains, I was never able to achieve an efficiency above 45%. My worts all came out thick and cloudy and fermented poorly, producing a variety of off-flavors and generally being poorly attenuated. When I switched to the Promalt (an enzyme blend containing beta-glucanase and protease as well as both alpha- and beta-amylase), my results improved drastically. My efficiency with Promalt is around 70-80%, depending on the grains, and my all-grain (or mostly all-grain) beers ferment as nicely as my extract batches. If you can achieve that with just amylase, I'd love to know the secret!

Of course, proper flavor development is something I'm still working on. But that's a different post!
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Old 05-27-2013, 03:34 AM   #6
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So what about malted quinoa and malted barley and using amylase? Will that give me a decent mash or even a partial mash and I can supplement it with sorghum extract?

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Old 05-27-2013, 05:00 PM   #7
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Igliashon! How did that cocktail work out, make any cool brews? I haven't gotten on this site for a while because I've been so busy! Danz, yes you can buy it if you know a someone that owns a brewery or has access to suppliers. Other wise your out of luck. I know they developed a new mix that doesn't require hitting the gelatinization temp but I don't know when that's available or the pricing of it.

Man I can't wait to get home from Alaska and brew! I'm planning a few batched of blond and a double ipa. I can't brew where I am now though because it's illegal in this town.

I am home August!!!!!!!

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Old 05-27-2013, 05:16 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by igliashon View Post
In my experiments using simply an amylase blend on cereal-mashed unmalted grains, I was never able to achieve an efficiency above 45%. My worts all came out thick and cloudy and fermented poorly, producing a variety of off-flavors and generally being poorly attenuated. When I switched to the Promalt (an enzyme blend containing beta-glucanase and protease as well as both alpha- and beta-amylase), my results improved drastically. My efficiency with Promalt is around 70-80%, depending on the grains, and my all-grain (or mostly all-grain) beers ferment as nicely as my extract batches. If you can achieve that with just amylase, I'd love to know the secret!
Interesting. I would have expected prolonged boiling to be more effective at breaking down starches and proteins.

Still, I plan to try it myself. My grains are just adjuncts for my meads. So peak efficiency is not much of a concern
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:19 PM   #9
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So what about malted quinoa and malted barley and using amylase? Will that give me a decent mash or even a partial mash and I can supplement it with sorghum extract?
Yes, that should work just fine. Haven't tried it, but IIRC there are people here who do use just amylase to boost the efficiency when mashing with malted GF grains. Just make sure NOT to cereal mash first, and instead do an infusion or decoction mash, so that you don't destroy the enzymes of the grains.
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Old 05-27-2013, 10:20 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by beljica View Post
Igliashon! How did that cocktail work out, make any cool brews? I haven't gotten on this site for a while because I've been so busy! Danz, yes you can buy it if you know a someone that owns a brewery or has access to suppliers. Other wise your out of luck. I know they developed a new mix that doesn't require hitting the gelatinization temp but I don't know when that's available or the pricing of it.

Man I can't wait to get home from Alaska and brew! I'm planning a few batched of blond and a double ipa. I can't brew where I am now though because it's illegal in this town.

I am home August!!!!!!!
Beljica! Ha ha, I thought you'd vanished. Dude, this Promalt is gold. I find I get the best results when I add an additional dose of pure amylase once I hit saccharification temperature, but it sure has made a difference. I've made some excellent beers with this stuff.
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