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Old 09-06-2012, 09:25 PM   #11
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That's a lot of spices. Be careful with the allspice, and ground cloves are really really strong.

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Old 09-06-2012, 09:32 PM   #12
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your going to boil 1 pound of straight honey? is this possible and even if it is your going to destroy all flavor and carmelize the sh*t out of it. i would add @ flameout and throw the spices in at 15min left in the boil

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Old 09-06-2012, 11:59 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ong
There's no malt because it's meant to be gluten free, I believe.
I believe NB sells a glue free LME. As the recipe sits now, there us nothing there that really need to be boiled for more than 10 or 15 mins. And without any malt, it won't be very beer like at all. Nor will it be remotely sweet. It will probably ferment out to be more wine-like.

Maybe look at farm wine recipes to get flavor ideas instead of beer.
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Old 09-08-2012, 05:04 PM   #14
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Dudes--Johnny Hitch and Sir Humpsalot, this is the gluten-free forum. With all due respect, I don't think you guys really know what you're talking about, and you probably shouldn't be trying to offer advice here. As someone with lots of experience brewing gluten-free (read: actually using the ingredients mentioned in the recipe), I can say with certainty that both your are comments off the mark, though it's clear they were well-intentioned. Rice syrup + candi syrup ferments out to be actually a lot more beer-like than either of you would expect, and this is definitely not going to come out "wine-like", or cider-like, or mead-like. It might not taste exactly like you'd expect from a barley-based beer, but it's for dang sure gonna be closer to beer than to anything else.

Furthermore, ChasidicCalvinist is boiling the honey to caramelize it, as in making brochet mead--look it up, he's not doing it for no reason! And the hour-long boil of the wort is necessary to extract the desired bitterness from the centennial hops, as you should know, since hop utilization translates exactly the same to gluten-free brewing. I think you would both be very surprised if you could taste the finished product! I hope ChasidicCalvinist does not take your advice, and I hope you guys will try to refrain from giving advice to people when you don't know what you're talking about, because there's a chance they might actually take your advice and end up making bad decisions because of it. Sorry if this is coming off offensively, I don't mean to be a dick. RDWHAHB and maybe stick to the regular brewing forums!

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Old 09-09-2012, 10:36 AM   #15
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Hmph. Oops. I'm still getting used to the HBT app. I actually didn't notice that this was the Gluten-Free forum.

Nevertheless, I think that this would be better suited to a country wine type of yeast and a wine-type of recipe. I do disagree that the recipe will be more beer-like than country wine. Have you seen some of the old recipes that homestead housewives have concocted to get a little liquor flowing in the house? I'm not talking grapes here.. I'm talking anything that's fermentable! And they wound up with some (reportedly) drinkable booze.

Actually, come to think of it, I've had several samples of wines that made use of sugar for a large percentage of fermentables. No, they were not your fine dining $100 bottle wines, but they actually did taste quite good. I even bought a couple of them! So I certainly do recognize that sugar (candi, dextrose, sucrose, table, whatever) can be used to make a fine fermentable beverage. However...

Even without barley, the basic science of fermentation and the basic rules of taste haven't changed. I would still include some grains that will lend both flavor and texture... be it sorghum, oats, whatever if the OP is genuinely going for a beer-like flavor and texture. I just don't think rice solids will lend any appreciable body. And otherwise, you're talking about pretty close to a sugar wash, which is much closer to what you see in farmhouse wines where often and commonly half or more of the fermentables are just sugar. So I still question the suitability of a beer yeast for this particular recipe. You won't even have any significant Free Amino Nitrogen (aka FAN)... so that'd be a recipe for a stuck fermentation right there.

I stand by my previous statements. This would be better done with wine in mind, than with beer. I mean, even mead makers don't use beer yeast often. They lean towards wine yeasts for several reasons (as a generality, of course, not as a rule). So yeah, I still question the wisdom of this recipe, as designed, for the purpose of making beer.... Which isn't to say you couldn't chill it, carbonate it, and have a tasty beverage...

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Old 09-10-2012, 04:29 PM   #16
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Well, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

I can say I have made beers with VERY similar grist and have had friends say they can't tell the difference between my beers and any other micro/nanobrewed IPA.

We are brewing GF. Which means we are constantly testing and experimenting, and we have found (through real experience) that some of the old conventional wisdoms either just don't apply or were just simply wrong to begin with.

So, thanks for your well meaning advice, but we're doing just fine over here with our winey beers.

P.S. I didn't mean to imply you are an inexperienced brewer. For all I know you are the brewmaster at Sam Adam's, but it appears from your advice that you do not have experience with these ingredients.

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Old 09-10-2012, 05:55 PM   #17
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Well said, dude.

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Old 09-10-2012, 08:34 PM   #18
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@Sir Humpsalot, I've done beers that are 95% rice syrup and maybe 5% honey, and nothing else in terms of fermentables. They taste usually even more beer-like than beers made with sorghum, but you are correct that they lack a bit in the body department. It is definitely a grain flavor, though! A bit one-dimensional, not perfect by any means, but also not far off from your run-of-the-mill light/pilsner LME. The caramelized honey and the molasses in ChasidicCalvinist's recipe will both take care of the body, I can assure you of that. And considering that in spice beers, the malt is not typically super-forward in the flavor profile, I think he's definitely on the right track.

At one time in this country, it was common to make beer--and yes, they called it beer, or at least ale--from hops and molasses, with no malt at all. And historically, ale could encompass many ingredients no longer used today, and could omit hops and barley entirely. I've seen historical recipes for beer that call for nothing but sugar and nettles, with a little yeast floated on a piece of toast. Time was, root beer and ginger beer were indeed "beer", i.e. they were fermented and slightly alcoholic. It's really only post-prohibition that we in the U.S. adhere to such a conservative Germanic idea of what we can call "beer", you'd almost think that we ratified the Reinheitsgebot when we passed the 21st amendment! But if you want to be historically-accurate, any fermented beverage with some kind of non-fruit sugar source and some kind of bittering herb, ranging from maybe 0-13% ABV (more in modern times, thanks to the boys at BrewDog and Sam Adams), served sparkling and chilled, is a beer. Wines are distinguished usually by alcohol content, not sugar source--hence "barley wines" and "rice wines". Cider and mead are the two main drinks distinguished by sugar source alone--all ciders are made from fruit, period, and all meads must contain honey, period. But beers and wines are far less restrictive, or at least have been less restrictive historically. But in any case I don't see the sense in calling a fermented beverage flavored with hops and with the majority of fermentable sugars derived from a grain (in this case, rice) a "wine"!

If you haven't read them, I'd recommend reading Randy Mosher's "Radical Brewing" and Stephen Harrod Buhner's "Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers". They will enlarge your conception of what a beer can be!

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Old 09-11-2012, 01:24 AM   #19
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I have read Radical Brewing. I didn't mean to be dismissive with the wine comment. It was intended to suggest an alternative source for more similar recipes than the typical beer sources.

If I was going to brew something very light on malt type grains (and GF), I would seek out mead and country wine recipes for inspiration more than beer sources. That's all I was trying to get at and I think it's a pretty common-sense recommendation because the info on a lot of the spices and whatnot is already out there in those circles.

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Old 09-11-2012, 04:29 AM   #20
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I know where you're coming from, mate, believe me, I get advice like this from just about every regular brewer I meet. Everyone's suggestion is to forget trying to make something beer-like and make a mead or a cider or even a sake. These are all considered "legitimate" forms of booze by most people, while gluten-free beer is considered either a novelty, a poor substitute for the real thing, or even an oxymoron. Gluten-free brewing is basically the Paralympics of beer, except that normal people are finally starting to take the Paralympics seriously. If we wanted to make mead or country wine, that's what we'd do, and a lot of us do brew that stuff, too. But the reason we're all in this forum, instead of the mead forums or the wine forums or whatever, is because we miss beer (or are close to someone who misses beer). There is probably a greater range of flavor possible with beer than with any other beverage, and you probably totally take for granted what a luxury it is to have access to that. And one of the things beer can be is sweet, high-alcohol, and generously spiced. See for instance Anchor's Christmas Ale. Just because a guy throws some spices and honey in the recipe, doesn't mean he's trying to make country wine!

Put yourself in our shoes--what would YOU do if you found out you could never drink regular "real" beer ever again? Would you be happy drinking "country wine" for the rest of your days? Would you take it lying down if someone told you you could never have another hefeweizen or IPA or stout ever again?

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